weasel
Advanced Member
Posts:161
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| 09 Jan 2009 03:56 AM |
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A TRILLION dollars... It could be as much as a trillion more dollars of debt created by our new presidents "stimulus package", as he outlined in his recent speech. George Bush took the path of least resistance and threw a whole bunch of money at a problem. It did not fix anything, only created a long line of people wanting the same handout. What caused the econimic situation that is labeled a crisis? Will printing more money, creating more debt, and growing government solve anything? Are there any economists here? |
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ewmadman
Veteran Member
Posts:237
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| 09 Jan 2009 08:07 AM |
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The Government needs more money to pay their debt and less spending. Another tax base would help the most of all, but only with less spending. |
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weasel
Advanced Member
Posts:161
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| 13 Jan 2009 09:06 AM |
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The Government needs more money?!? They don't need anymore of mine! The Government confiscates enough of mine at the point of a gun already! Another tax base?!?! Maybe we can tax Mexico, or Canada...lol madman, please evaluate your post, re-think the situation and get back to us on it. I think I know what you were getting at, but it seemed to come across wrong as worded. Clarify, please... |
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ewmadman
Veteran Member
Posts:237
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| 14 Jan 2009 06:08 AM |
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Weasel, how else do you pay the national debt? With Wheaties? Condums? |
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Bluebeard
Advanced Member
Posts:191
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| 15 Jan 2009 01:47 AM |
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I can not quite figure out how we are suspose to spend our way out of debt either myself. All I see coming out of it is the rapid devaiuation of our dollar over the next few years as it becomes worthless due to our rather large and growing national debt. Al I can say is buckle up cause we are in for one hell of a ride |
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ewmadman
Veteran Member
Posts:237
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| 16 Jan 2009 05:31 AM |
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yea and it's all downhill |
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weasel
Advanced Member
Posts:161
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| 19 Jan 2009 08:08 AM |
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How do you pay the National Debt? Well, who exactly creates the "National Debt?" It is not me. I can only create personal debt for myself. I can only burden myself with an amount of debt that I can handle, or I risk going bankrupt. I can't eliminate my debt by borrowing more. I do not have a magic money tree, or the ability to simply print more money. I must reduce my spending, and pay real service to my debt to improve my personal financial condition. If I am a prudent person, I try to operate with as little debt as possible. Is this not common sense?!? What is the difference with the "National Debt?" The difference is that the people that are creating the National Debt are the crooked politicians that collect our taxes. They do not want your wheaties... But, hey, President Obama has found a professional tax evader to become his new Treasury Secretary. If our Congress lets this appointment pass, we are spiraling downward indeed! |
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ewmadman
Veteran Member
Posts:237
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| 20 Jan 2009 06:14 AM |
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Weasel, that is why I said that we need another tax base, to generate more money to pay the debut. Throwing money at the problem does not do anything, but put people's hands out for more. We must overhaul the welfare system, the dead beats must go! White and Black! The free-bee's must stop! You can't spend more than you have! You can't at home, nore with Government. |
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weasel
Advanced Member
Posts:161
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| 23 Jan 2009 07:43 AM |
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Creating another tax base? Giving more money to the people that have spent us into the financial mess that we seem to be in would be similar to opening another credit card account for your teenage daughter to go shopping for shoes after she has already gone over the credit limit on her first five credit cards you gave her. What about if the government were to do more with less? Every business that operates in this country has to pay back what it borrows. Every citizen has to pay his light bill or sit in the dark. We all have to balance our budgets in our personal and professional endevors. Oh, wait a minute, I almost forgot...We are going to try socialism for a while. So, where do I get in line to sign up for my stipend until I find out which government "project" I am hired to work on. |
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ewmadman
Veteran Member
Posts:237
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| 24 Jan 2009 11:00 AM |
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I don't think that a politician can have a balanced budget, it is past their mentality. And I think that there is plenty of fat that could be trimmed. But, right now, we need a big change. We should start with our welfare system. At least 50% of the people on welfare could be working. We also should remove the free benifits that our politicians enjoy, like their retirement. |
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VenusFlyTrap
Senior Member
Posts:841
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| 25 Jan 2009 10:55 AM |
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Our taxes are going to go up when is the question. For the moment we are safe from federal taxing BUT state and local govt are raising taxes which is squeezing more out of people and causing more tightening of the belt and cuts in jobs. I disagree with bailing out the banks and auto industry as it is proposed. I think the banks need to go to their customers and work out a way to keep people in their homes. It isn't like we didn't know that prices were over inflated and would stabilize. Banks should take cuts from what they loaned and keep people in the homes they bought. The banks are selling homes for as low as 1,000.00. My son recently bought one for 6,000.00. That notion hurts ALL of us and the point in an economy is to keep money circulating. I think the govt should offer rewards to banks who keep people in their homes. Perhaps refinancing homes facing foreclosure at the current appraisals and raising interest by 1 or 2 %. It won't recover the cost but it will bring in more than 1,000.00 and keep the tax payers from paying the rest of it. As for the auto industry I feel no compassion for them as they have known since the Clinton era that vehicles with better fuel was the focus and goal and they too, acted like fools, seeking money to wipe their butts with.
The rich and stupid rich, in this country, are responsible for this mess too with the way they manipulated the stock markets. I am of the impression that the middle class, which dominates, was ignored, forgotten, overlooked or simply neglected. When the markets started to tremble the middle classes weren't getting burned like we were when the market crashed after 9/11. The middle classes pulled out and went to more secure investing and our incomes combined is stronger than those of the rich and stupid rich. Politicians still neglect the middle class and are now looking to buffer the rich... It isn't going to work. The working class needs to be tended to and no longer neglected. Invest a few trillion into the lower classes, put as many as possible back into their homes and keep as many as possible there. Let the rich and stupid rich invest into this country as they have taken more than their share from it. Invest money into businesses that offer larger job bases, void the banks auto industry, who have proven they will abuse the money. Let them start taking responsibility for their greed and encourage them to do so! Let the govt regulate fuel and energy costs. This is going to get worse before it gets better but with the stock market showing promise, things will improve over time. The market shows that money is being circulated.... We haven't placed our money back into the market and we won't until things stabilize more... Many others are doing the same. The rich and stupid rich can't keep the market going and they have been shown this... ALL govt needs to focus on the working class and fix the problems there. With the economy in a meltdown it means the rich want to recover money and more of the working class will be seeking money from the govt as they become unemployed and in need of food and shelter... Once again the middle classes are forced to carry the burden and go neglected. |
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ttfnbandit
Veteran Member
Posts:492
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| 30 Jan 2009 08:31 AM |
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ahhhhhhh its good to back. im sure i was missed by everyone . the change people here are talking about, well lets see didnt they elect for the so called change you speak of? i mean the rockstar was elected because hes gonna change everything right? he was elected on his values and clearly outlined plans to fix things wasnt he? he couldnt be just another silver tounged politician could he  ? personally i could care less if most of these people have to live in a tent. they bought a house they couldnt afford ( or multiple houses looking to turn a quick buck). guess what its a contract! read the fine print. nobody with a balloning interest rate should have been shocked when it went up, they signed the papers. now they want me to bail there butts out so they dont lose their house! well kiss my grits flo , it shouldnt happen. lose your house and fail, thats the american way. folks must take personal resposibilty for there own mistakes and shortcomings. if you cant pay your bills then you lose your stuff. my taxes are high enough as they are , why am i paying to bail out a loan company? they provide no large scale jobs like the auto industry( ill get to those guys in a sec). they are a money lender thats it. when one fails theres 20 smarter smaller ones to take its place. but no fear uncle sugar is gonna reach as far into my and your pocket as it takes to make sure that everyone wins. its like my kids tee ball leauge that didnt keep score. what the heck is that???? some one has to lose. thats what makes people stronger and want to do better. we are turning into a country of criebabies. as for the auto fat cats they had there wake up call but they are at least part of our g.n.p and can export that if they would get with the program and stop producing over priced beer cans that only run good until the warrenty expires. hmmmm 5 yrs or 50k miles, sounds like they knew they were selling crap. its only gonna get worse the people will realize they elected just another politician who is clueless and that is a socialist ( thats a first). i just hope that people wake up and quit coddling the weak and the stupid. ttfn |
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weasel
Advanced Member
Posts:161
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| 09 Feb 2009 03:08 AM |
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“Owners of capital will stimulate the working class to buy more and more of expensive goods, houses and technology, pushing them to take more and more expensive credits, until their debt becomes unbearable. The unpaid debt will lead to bankruptcy of banks, which will have to be nationalized, and the State will have to take the road which will eventually lead to communism.” - Karl Marx, Das Kapital, 1867 - |
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weasel
Advanced Member
Posts:161
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| 09 Feb 2009 04:07 AM |
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CHANGE! Oh yeah, Change... It seems as though Mr. Obama has always surrounded himself with the shady powerful fringe players, and continues to do so. It would have been nice to see some fresh minds and new ideas come to his administration. But it ain't gonna happen! Appointed as Chief of Staff: Rohm Emanuel; this guy was a senior advisor in the CLINTON ADMINISTRATION, and was the man that Bill used to put pressure on his political enemies. Appointed as CIA Director: Leon Panetta; he was Chief of Staff in the CLINTON ADMINISTRATION. This lefty is the last person that should head our CIA. Appointed Attorney General; Eric Holder. This guy was the Deputy Attorney General under Janet Reno in the CLINTON ADMINISTRATION, and was responsible for pushing through the pardons for the FLN Terrorists, among others. Robert Reich; Mr.Obama's Ecomony Guru was Labor Secretary in the CLINTON ADMINISTRATION. This guy is a socialist through and through. Carol Browner, Mr. Obama's global warming expert was the head of EPA in the CLINTON ADMINISTRATION. Susan Rice; appointed to the UN was Assistant Secretary of State in the CLINTON ADMINISTRATION. And then there's Mr Obama's pick for Secretary of State: Hillary Clinton; she was not officially part of the CLINTON ADMINISTRATION, but you get the picture. If the uneducated and apethetic population outnumber the people who seek the truth and honesty in government, this "A" team of liberal elitists will bring this country to its knees. I, for one, am fearful! |
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ttfnbandit
Veteran Member
Posts:492
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| 10 Feb 2009 11:47 AM |
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weasel i couldnt have said it better myself. although i love a good debate ,( and somtimes scrap ) you hit the nail on the head. i myself am personaly clinging to my gun and religon ( and buying as much ammo as i can with my mad money budget ) because we have only seenthe start of whats to come. the cry babies said for to long" bush has stolen our civil liberties and our privacy" what they fail to see is that bush insured our biggest liberty of them all. the right to defend ourselves from oppression and the scum of society. THE RIGHT TO BARE ARMS. i realize its not top of the news or agenda right now but you can be assured that its coming with the cabnet hes chosen. i forget who imquoting but its sotrue " an armed populace are citizens and an unarmed populace are subjects" . we as a people are in for a world of hurt and the current pres is going to do nothing but blame bush even though when the rep. tried to do somthing about whats happening now 2 years ago the dem. controlled congress and senate shot it down. my biggest fear is that the same majority that voted the rookie in is gonna buy into his b.s. ttfn
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weasel
Advanced Member
Posts:161
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| 11 Feb 2009 08:36 AM |
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As a gift for my birthday, I received a t-shirt showing Uncle Sam looking stern, pointing his finger, with a caption undernethe that stated " Clinging to My Guns and Religeon." I guess my friends and family know my outlook on things. I do not feel like we are alone. But it is scarey to see the majority of the population being swayed by the propaganda served up by the main-stream media everyday. If the Liberal Democrats can push through some sort of amnesty bill for the people who are in the country illegally , and attatch some sort of "stimulus" check for each one of these new citizens, they will have a new voter base of 10 - 16 million people, bought and paid for, on our childrens promise to pay. I look for it to be coming. Yes, Mr. Bandit, I must admit, I have made sure that everything I own with the capability of stopping a pick-up truck full of weasels or bandits at the end of my driveway is well fed. Ammunition is becoming more expensive everyday! I am continually looking for a bargain while maintaining function and performance . I am unsure if my children and their children will enjoy shooting sports and right to defend themselves as I and my forefathers have. The attack on the Second Amendment is coming. Just wait until Mr. Obama has the opportunity to appoint a couple Supreme Court Justices and slides in a couple more whacko, lefty, nut-jobs like Ruth Bater-Ginsberg, (Thank you Bill Clinton)....Our country will change rapidly. We live in scarey times indeed! One thing is certain, Mr. Bandit, we must stand together and expose the fraudulent schemes being purpetrated against the American People. I am with you. |
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weasel
Advanced Member
Posts:161
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| 17 Feb 2009 02:01 AM |
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Well, we should all be stimulated now! President Obama just signed one of the largest Pork Bills ever! This is the largest fraud ever perpetrated against the American people. Well, maybe the Social Security System comes close. Our childrens children will not be able to pay for it. The social engineering contained in this bill will cause changes most have no clue about. With one stroke of Mr. Obama's pen, the Clinton Welfare Reform is no more. This is just the start of things to come! Most of our elected officials won't admit that they even know everything that is in the bill they voted for. But, they do. We have been sold out and thrown under the bus. The politicians are drunk with the drug of our money. They are busy now spending money that has not even been printed yet. |
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cmom
Senior Member
Posts:1340
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| 17 Feb 2009 07:31 AM |
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I agree Weasel,its unbelievable.As far as I am concerned,this is a Clinton administration.Obamas cabinet is mostly people that served under Clinton.I truly believe that not one senate or house member read the stimulas bill,they only saw what they wated too see.On cnn,the headline was.."The top 25 people that caused this financial crisis...It was all the big banks that wanted bailouts from bad loans,and wall street.Alot of this crisis in the artical,was scare tactics.Even if a company is doing ok,they will lay off workers,to save money,and it goes to the next,then the next ect ect ect.Greed is the cause of all this,and 25 companies made this happen.I am angry too Weasel............. |
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weasel
Advanced Member
Posts:161
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| 23 Feb 2009 11:28 AM |
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There is an old saying that circulates among salespeople. "You have to give them a headache before you can sell them the asprin." What this means is that you have to create a need before you can provide the answer. Most all salespeople do this to make consumers think that they need what is being offered. I believe Mr. Thomas Sowell sums the situation up quite nicely in the following excerpt from one of his articles.
"There is far more to fear from this administration than its amateurism in governing. The urgency with which it has rushed through a monumental spending bill, whose actual spending will not be completed even after 2010, ought to set off alarm bells among those who are not in thrall to the euphoria of Obama's presidency. The urgency was real, even if the reason given was phony. President Obama's chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, let slip a valuable clue when he said that a crisis should not go to waste, that a crisis is an opportunity to do things that you could not do otherwise. Think about the utter cynicism of that. During a crisis, a panicked public will let you get away with things you couldn't get away with otherwise. A corollary of that is that you had better act quickly while the crisis is at hand, without Congressional hearings or public debates about what you are doing. Above all, you must act before the economy begins to recover on its own. The party line is that the market has failed so disastrously that only the government can save us. It is proclaimed in Washington and echoed in the media. The last thing the administration can risk is delay that could allow the market to begin recovering on its own. That would undermine, if not destroy, a golden opportunity to restructure the American economy in ways that would allow politicians to micro-manage other sectors of the economy the way they have micro-managed the housing market into disaster." --Hoover Institution economist Thomas Sowell
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dd2010
Advanced Member
Posts:160
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| 27 Feb 2009 09:13 AM |
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dont know if anyone remembers back as the wars in iraq & afghanistan were beginning . it was either osama bin laden or one of his chief lieutenants made the statement that alquida knew it could not beat the u.s. militarily but it could defeat the u.s. in a indirect manner (financially ) as they said thru our wallets , not neccesarily implying compliance but didnt our newly elected icon hail from somalia , a known alquida hot bed how are we to know whether or not our newest edition is not helping alquida in their claim of disfame. but ive heard more than once that we the people are spending at least 1 million dollars a day on just one of these bail out schemes and we have only just begun . and claiming to reduce taxes , come on everyone knows that a dem. is a spendaholic in a suit ,i frankly didnt have a problem with the rep. they did ok a war is not a good thing but it kept terrorist from kicking us on the heals , lets wait to see what happens when we tuck tails and in a sense run , i cant believe the people of the u.s. have forgotten 9-11 and in a way they have, the political field is full of per say immigrants it didnt used to be that way , what happewned to the made in america slogan !do we even care anymore , i hope we wont have an eye oppening experience it could be historically nasty , |
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