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Interesting accusation ref. 2 girls murder
Last Post 20 Mar 2012 02:49 AM by CandlelightNight. 200 Replies.
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cmomUser is Offline Senior Member Senior Member Send Private Message Posts:1340 Avatar
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19 Jul 2007 04:23 AM
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Your Right Smokey,so many theories on this horrible crime.Theres someone out there that knows something.Smokey,you dont think the man arrested knows anything? I dont think he did this horrible crime,but didnt he know alot of things? You are leaning on a close friend,boyfriend,or family member of one of the girls.Has any of these ppl been checked out I wonder.
cmomUser is Offline Senior Member Senior Member Send Private Message Posts:1340 Avatar
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19 Jul 2007 06:55 AM
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Thank you for that information Devil. Its not to say that this person that lived on Herring thats spoken of in the above artical ,may have had a 380 as well as a 9mm.You know,anything is possible,and all things should be looked at.We all know there are rumors,yet alot of facts are got from rumors..(I saw that on cold case files) I have always wondered,why were the girls wet?Where were they when they were killed?They left that store after calling Tracies mom,saying,we were lost,but are on our way home now.Somewhere they were killed near water or a swamp,brought back to Herring,and left.2 people have had to do this,for if they were left on Herring,the person doing the killing had to have a get away car which,someone else followed in,unless ofcourse the person doing the killing walked home.
devils advocateUser is Offline Veteran Member Veteran Member Send Private Message Posts:346 Avatar
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19 Jul 2007 08:17 AM
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The fact that the girls were wet dosen't mean they were killed near a water source there are a hundred different variables there. And just because some guy that was a real a--hole lived on herring ten years before the murders dosen't make him a suspect. That's just absurd. It takes more than watching a few episodes of cold case files and csi to solve a crime. And by the way it could have been done by one person... If that person had a tow truck.
VenusFlyTrapUser is Offline Senior Member Senior Member Send Private Message Posts:710
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19 Jul 2007 08:58 AM
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With all of the people living around Herring Ave and James St. No one heard a gunshot or two in the dead of the night while they slept or were up watching the tv because of insomnia.... Of course the killer(s) could have had a silencer too....
I don't think that some person driven by his emotional rage would kill someone in his backyard and leave them in his backyard, so to speak.
I also don't give someone with the title "devil's advocate" much credibility for speaking "facts".
Disclaimer:
I VenusFlyTrap post under one moniker only. If the author of a post doesn't say "VenusFlyTrap", it isn't me.
southernbamaUser is Offline Veteran Member Veteran Member Send Private Message Posts:385
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19 Jul 2007 09:20 AM
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I read the person's entire posts yesterday afternoon. This was the ONLY post that referenced the murders. From what I gather the lady's name is Jacqui, some spell it Jackie and I believe she lives in Daleville. She is living in a motel somewhere, which there aren't that many here (I work in Daleville). I believe she may have posted on the former wiregrass site because she said she was sexually molested by a lesbian while in foster care but can't remember her user id. Does anyone remember that? She may even post to this board now. She is still posting entries to that particular site.
Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].
Ephesians 6:11-12
southernbamaUser is Offline Veteran Member Veteran Member Send Private Message Posts:385
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19 Jul 2007 09:26 AM
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Posted By devils advocate on 07/19/2007 9:17 AM
The fact that the girls were wet dosen't mean they were killed near a water source there are a hundred different variables there. And just because some guy that was a real a--hole lived on herring ten years before the murders dosen't make him a suspect. That's just absurd. It takes more than watching a few episodes of cold case files and csi to solve a crime. And by the way it could have been done by one person... If that person had a tow truck.


Another theory, no who do we know that has a tow truck business? nah, just joking David Daniels.
Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].
Ephesians 6:11-12
VenusFlyTrapUser is Offline Senior Member Senior Member Send Private Message Posts:710
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19 Jul 2007 09:30 AM
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LOL Southern,
Poor David.... We know he lacks self control and that alone rules him out as a suspect.
Maybe we should call this folder Wiregrass criminal philosophy 101
Disclaimer:
I VenusFlyTrap post under one moniker only. If the author of a post doesn't say "VenusFlyTrap", it isn't me.
VeritasUser is Offline Veteran Member Veteran Member Send Private Message Posts:435 Avatar
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19 Jul 2007 09:44 AM
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the gun was a .380? The bullets didn't penetrate the trunk pan? Interesting....I remember at the time hearing that, when they moved the car, blood was found beneath the car. It caused no little speculation as to why the officers at the scene didn't see it. It also added to the speculation that OPD simply didn't WANT to see it. Granted, a .380 is no TOY. The bullet is still a 9mm, and the smaller case of the .380 has a "hotter" powder to make up for its smaller size. The girls, if I remember correctly, WERE NOT found wet from the waist down. That was one of the many rumours that circulated about them. Now, it IS possible that their pants were wet, since the bladder and sphincter relax in death, allowing the contents to empty. But that's not anything unusual. Oh, and one last thing. A couple months after the murders, I had a trainee who lived near Ozark. After you get out of truck driving school, you have to ride / drive with a trainer for 8 weeks. In 8 weeks, cooped up in the cab / sleeper of a truck, you KNOW a person. She told me endless stories about this guy, a former boyfriend, who lived in Ozark, and who ran a wrecker service / gas station service. His gas station wasn't far from Herring. To hear her side of it, this guy was INSANE. I never really believed that he was the killer, because of other things that stuck in my mind (the accuracy of the original story as told by "you know who"), but just the same, it's something to consider. If not for the highly accurate story told by the original suspect, I'd be extremely curious about this guy with the wrecker. (Actually, it was a rollback). The fly in the ointment of ALL the various theories is that they're possible, but they don't explain how "you know who" could know so much about the girls and the way they were killed. HE IS THE LINK.
VeritasUser is Offline Veteran Member Veteran Member Send Private Message Posts:435 Avatar
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19 Jul 2007 09:58 AM
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well, since you mentioned his name, I may as well confirm it. My trainee, the one who was SURE it was done by her ex boyfriend...the stories she told me were all about this David guy.
VeritasUser is Offline Veteran Member Veteran Member Send Private Message Posts:435 Avatar
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19 Jul 2007 10:09 AM
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hahahah! My ex g/f, who had a huge case of rage against JB, is left handed. So is "you know who", I believe. But then again, I've heard that the girls' heads were toward the passenger side of the car. The mazda 929 doesn't have a huge trunk, and the last time I looked in JB's trunk, it was FULL of stuff...clothes, make-up bags, you name it. I teased her endlessly about it. If she were to have a flat, she'd have to pile her undies beside the road in plain view to get the tire out!!! Perhaps the killer had to angle the gun from the middle of the trunk, under the trunk edge, to shoot them in the head. And, seems like I remember hearing that JB was shot outside the trunk.
VeritasUser is Offline Veteran Member Veteran Member Send Private Message Posts:435 Avatar
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19 Jul 2007 10:15 AM
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Way back when, there used to be a "peanut" who posted a lot to wiregrass.com. Not you? Dang! hahaha! That person used to be good for an opposing viewpoint. Peanut and another one who went by Snoopy. Might have even been a CharlieBrown, but memory is foggy. I agree with you that a totally independent investigator might be of some help, but so far, the only investigator that I've had any dealings with is very possibly the one who pulled the trigger. He sure as heck fits the description given by "you know who" in his original "confession". Go figure.
VenusFlyTrapUser is Offline Senior Member Senior Member Send Private Message Posts:710
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19 Jul 2007 10:17 AM
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Posted By Veritas on 07/19/2007 10:58 AM
well, since you mentioned his name, I may as well confirm it. My trainee, the one who was SURE it was done by her ex boyfriend...the stories she told me were all about this David guy.


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David is an obnoxious arse and he has ired a lot of people and gotten his arse kicked by a lot of people and would have killed someone before JB and Tracie if it was in him to do... David likes an audience when he is being an arse and killing someone, I would suspect, would be no different!
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Disclaimer:
I VenusFlyTrap post under one moniker only. If the author of a post doesn't say "VenusFlyTrap", it isn't me.
SmokeyUser is Offline Advanced Member Advanced Member Send Private Message Posts:62
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20 Jul 2007 12:41 AM
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Posted By Smokey on 07/20/2007 11:41 AM
Posted By Veritas on 07/19/2007 11:09 AM
hahahah! My ex g/f, who had a huge case of rage against JB, is left handed. So is "you know who", I believe. But then again, I've heard that the girls' heads were toward the passenger side of the car. The mazda 929 doesn't have a huge trunk, and the last time I looked in JB's trunk, it was FULL of stuff...clothes, make-up bags, you name it. I teased her endlessly about it. If she were to have a flat, she'd have to pile her undies beside the road in plain view to get the tire out!!! Perhaps the killer had to angle the gun from the middle of the trunk, under the trunk edge, to shoot them in the head. And, seems like I remember hearing that JB was shot outside the trunk.

I am gona throw my 2 cents in this. for what it is worth

There was no blood found on the body of the car except what had run out of the trunk. If they were shot anywhere but inside the trunk getting the bodies into the trunk would of been quite messy and the driver wouls have left some in the drivers seat area. Even if the car was washed phorensics could still have pulled traces of blood with dye. That may have been a theory early on but it is not really supportable with what I have been told by many involved.



Sorry, I meant inside the trunk this board needs a way to go back and correct errors
SmokeyUser is Offline Advanced Member Advanced Member Send Private Message Posts:62
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20 Jul 2007 12:54 AM
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I did a search and found this on a legal website.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scrip...45&invol=2

It shows that the state had taken custody of J.B., if nothing else.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Rel: 5/17/02 Cheryl Burgoon v. Ala. State Dept. of Human Resources


Notice: This opinion is subject to formal revision before publication in the advance sheets of Southern Reporter. Readers are requested to notify the Reporter of Decisions, Alabama Appellate Courts, 300 Dexter Avenue, Montgomery, Alabama 36104-3741 ((334) 242-4621), of any typographical or other errors, in order that corrections may be made before the opinion is printed in Southern Reporter.


SUPREME COURT OF ALABAMA



OCTOBER TERM, 2001-2002



_________________________



1010345

_________________________



Cheryl Burgoon, individually and as administratrix of the estate of J.B. Beasley, deceased

v.

Alabama State Department of Human Resources et al.



Appeal from Houston Circuit Court

(CV-2001-537)



WOODALL, Justice.



Cheryl Burgoon, individually and as administratrix of the estate of her daughter, J.B. Beasley, deceased, appeals from a judgment dismissing her complaint against, among others, the Alabama State Department of Human Resources and the Houston County Department of Human Resources (hereinafter referred to collectively as "DHR"). We affirm in part, reverse in part, and remand.

According to the undisputed facts, 17-year-old J.B. Beasley was murdered. Her body was discovered locked in the trunk of her automobile; she had suffered a gunshot wound to the head. At the time of the murder, Beasley was in the legal custody of the Houston County Department of Human Resources.

On July 31, 2001, Burgoon commenced a wrongful-death action in the Houston Circuit Court against DHR and certain individuals, among whom were employees of DHR. The complaint alleged, among other things, that certain individuals had failed to supervise Beasley. It averred that "none of the Defendants can account for J.B. Beasley's whereabouts on the night of her death," and that the homicide occurred "[a]s a direct and proximate result of [the] failure to ... supervise." The complaint included claims for damages against DHR and against its employees in their individual and official capacities.

On August 8, 2001, one of the individual defendants moved to disqualify Burgoon's attorney, on the ground that the attorney would become a material witness in the case. On August 27, 2001, the trial court entered on the case-action-summary sheet an order scheduling a hearing on October 2, 2001, for "[a]ll pending motions." Subsequently, the defendants filed motions for dismissal. In particular, the individual defendants filed motions to dismiss pursuant to Ala. R. Civ. P. 12(b)(6) on August 30, 2001, and August 31, 2001. On September 5, 2001, DHR and one of its employees filed a joint "Motion to Dismiss Pursuant to [Ala]. R. Civ. P. 12, or in the Alternative, Motion for Summary Judgment Pursuant to [Ala]. R. Civ. P. 56." Accompanying the latter motion was the employee's affidavit. On September 21, 2001, that is, 11 days before the scheduled hearing, the trial court entered the following order on the case-action-summary sheet: "Motions to dismiss as to all defendants are hereby granted." From that judgment, Burgoon appealed.

Burgoon contends that the trial court erred in granting the defendants' motions to dismiss without a hearing. She relies on Ala. R. Civ. P. 78, which states, in pertinent part:

"To expedite further its business, unless there is a request for oral hearing, the court may enter an order denying a motion to dismiss without oral hearing. Unless the court orders otherwise, an order granting a motion to dismiss shall be deemed to permit an automatic right of amendment of the pleading to which the motion is directed within ten (10) days from service of the order."

(Emphasis added.) Particularly instructive are the "Committee Comments on 1973 Adoption" to Rule 78, which state, in part:

"It is to be noted that the last sentence of the rule prohibits the granting of a Motion Seeking Final Judgment such as a Motion for Summary Judgment without giving the parties an opportunity to be heard orally.



"... In the event the court has any inclination toward the granting of the motion to dismiss, a hearing will continue to be required."



(Emphasis added.)

It is clear that the requirements of Rule 78 differ, depending on whether the trial court contemplates granting, as opposed to denying, a motion for a final judgment. Under the plain language of the rule and the comments to the rule, a trial court may not grant a motion to dismiss without a hearing, although, in some circumstances, it may deny such a motion. Cf. Van Knight v. Smoker, 778 So. 2d 801, 805 (Ala. 2000) (except in "certain limited circumstances," Rule 56(c), Ala. R. Civ. P., entitles the parties to a hearing on a summary-judgment motion).

There is one notable exception to this rule. Under Alabama caselaw, a "circuit court is without jurisdiction to entertain a suit against the State because of [Ala. Const. 1901, § 14]." Aland v. Graham, 287 Ala. 226, 229, 250 So. 2d 677, 678 (1971). "Therefore, it appears that a trial court or an appellate court should, at any stage of the proceedings, dismiss a suit when it becomes convinced that it is a suit against the State and contrary to Sec. 14 of the Constitution." 287 Ala. at 229, 250 So. 2d at 678 (emphasis added).

A suit against a State agency, or against State agents in their official capacities, is a suit against the State. Ex parte Mobile County Dep't of Human Res., [Ms. 1992252, May 25, 2001] ___ So. 2d ___ (Ala. 2001); Ex parte Alabama Dep't of Forensic Sciences, 709 So. 2d 455 (Ala. 1997); Ex parte Franklin County Dep't of Human Res., 674 So. 2d 1277, 1279 (Ala. 1996); Alabama State Docks v. Saxon, 631 So. 2d 943, 946 (Ala. 1994). State agents enjoy absolute immunity from suit in their official capacities. "[A] county department of human resources is considered to be a State agency for purposes of asserting the defense of sovereign immunity." Ex parte Franklin County Dep't of Human Res., 674 So. 2d at 1279. A trial court must dismiss an action against a State agency or against a State agent acting in an official capacity at the earliest opportunity. The trial court did not err in dismissing the claims against DHR and against its employees in their official capacities, because facially these claims were claims against the State.

The DHR employees in their individual capacities, however, enjoy only qualified immunity from suit. Ex parte Tuscaloosa County, 796 So. 2d 1100, 1106 (Ala. 2000). The law of qualified immunity was succinctly restated in Ex parte Cranman, 792 So. 2d 392, 405-06 (Ala. 2000), adopted by a majority of this Court in Ex parte Butts, 775 So. 2d 173 (Ala. 2000). The claims against the individuals in their individual capacities are not subject to the "notable exception" to Rule 78, because such claims are not claims against the State.

The trial court erred, therefore, in granting the motions to dismiss the claims against all individual defendants in their individual capacities without conducting a hearing. To the extent the judgment dismissed the claims against the individuals in their individual capacities, that judgment is reversed, and the cause is remanded for further proceedings consistent with this opinion. To the extent it dismissed the claims against DHR and against the individual defendants in their official capacities, the judgment is affirmed.

AFFIRMED IN PART; REVERSED IN PART; AND REMANDED.

Houston, See, Lyons, Brown, Johnstone, Harwood, and Stuart, JJ., concur.

Moore, C.J., concurs in part and dissents in part.


MOORE, Chief Justice (concurring in part and dissenting in part).

I concur in reversing the trial court's order insofar as it dismissed the claims against the DHR employees in their individual capacities; however, I dissent from that part of the majority opinion affirming the trial court's order dismissing the claims against DHR and its employees in their official capacities without a hearing

Carolyn_SUser is Offline Senior Member Senior Member Send Private Message Posts:1363
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20 Jul 2007 01:02 AM
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DAMN! i can't turn my back on y'all for a couple of days without more posts than i've seen in a year!

david, i didn't know you were questioned (why would i?) but thanks for offering up the info. its interesting that some of LE weren't DNA'd when many other people were checked out- esp in light of the BF policeman theory.....

ok i guess anythings possible but i think its reaching to see a guy with a tow truck hauling around a car with a couple of dead girls....

i live close to herring av.......... let me assure you that it is DAMN DARK, and even tho its in the middle of town its one isolated stretch of road. in that particular part of town i don't see anybody hopping out during the night to investigate the sound of gunshots which could be confused with fireworks, cars backfiring, and such. lets remember that July 31-Aug 1 is HOT weather. i bet i am not the only one who has a/c and fans running. i have window ac's and they are loud; i can almost assure you that many other houses close to that area have the window a/c's and it obliterates a lot of noise.

as smokey stated i go with the theory that whoever did this was close and any DNA would be commonly found- ie "explainable"~~~~~~~~
~~Some days it just doesn't seem worth the effort to gnaw through the straps...~~

_____________________________________


**Seether Fan**

Shaun Morgan is my GASOLINE
VenusFlyTrapUser is Offline Senior Member Senior Member Send Private Message Posts:710
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20 Jul 2007 01:28 AM
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I don't know who owns the property on that end of Herring, I know there used to be a house on the lot JB and Tracie were found on, years ago. Across the street from that lot, on Herring, is land and people used to go back in there and shoot guns. At the top of the hill on Herring there is a driveway of sorts and there used to be a gate.... My Aunt lived in the little white house right next to that gate in the early 1990's. People would go back in there where the gate is and gunshots would ring loud as ever through those woods. You could hear the gunshots over at Hillcrest Church, by the ballpark and down James St. They didn't shoot them at night when all was still and quiet but in the day when all was busy and air conditioners were running. I don't think anyone would get up and go investigate but I am positive people would have told the police they heard what they thought were gunshots or firecrackers after 11:30 at night. When i was little I used to play back on Herring and I was afraid to go into the woods for fear of being shot because guns were going off quite a bit around there and we were told snakes, the bobo and wolves were waiting to eat us, the gunshots kind of aided in confirming those stories, oh someone just killed a snake, I bet, oh but it could have been the bobo or a wolf.... I think people shot possum and snakes but as I child the concept of the bobo being in those woods was terribly frightening. When there are ball games taking place you can sit on any porch on that end of Herring and hear the bat make contact with the ball.... Which is why I don't think the girls were shot there. I believe someone would have heard something, especially the two houses on James going down the hill from Herring. And the two houses on top of the hill on Herring. Plus the elderly don't sleep soundly and the apartments on Herring, as kids we called "The old folks home" someone would have been awake and possibly heard something. The noises over there echo loudly!
Disclaimer:
I VenusFlyTrap post under one moniker only. If the author of a post doesn't say "VenusFlyTrap", it isn't me.
cmomUser is Offline Senior Member Senior Member Send Private Message Posts:1340 Avatar
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20 Jul 2007 02:38 AM
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I agree nicodemus,cant understand that at all. I would like very much to read your book,is it fiction,or non?
Carolyn_SUser is Offline Senior Member Senior Member Send Private Message Posts:1363
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20 Jul 2007 02:44 AM
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vft, i guess what i am getting at is #1- thats a pretty questionable area and #2- i subscribe to the theory that the girls were killed elsewhere and then left on herring to be discovered. (no basis except that the trigger person would be afraid that the shots would be heard by the very ones you mentioned.
i couldn't hear the morman tabernacle choir singing outside my bedroom window in the summer- i have fans whirring!! loudly.....
~~Some days it just doesn't seem worth the effort to gnaw through the straps...~~

_____________________________________


**Seether Fan**

Shaun Morgan is my GASOLINE
cmomUser is Offline Senior Member Senior Member Send Private Message Posts:1340 Avatar
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20 Jul 2007 02:53 AM
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nicodemus,I put my reply on the wrong page,but would love to read your book,also I agree,as why JBs car just sat there locked,trunk not opened right then..I guess maybe OPD just didnt think that two young girls could be inside..
cmomUser is Offline Senior Member Senior Member Send Private Message Posts:1340 Avatar
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20 Jul 2007 02:59 AM
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Your not talking over our heads,not at all,maybe we are talking over yours.
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