CandlelightNight
New Member
Posts:4
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| 20 Mar 2012 02:49 AM |
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| Haha, my brother mentioned to me this morning, "That crazy a-hole Russ is spouting his troll crap again" and I see he's right. Reviving a thread that's been dead for four and a half years to post some ludicrous mess no one knew or even cared about you--off your meds again, Russ? |
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Veritas
Veteran Member
Posts:435
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| 18 Mar 2012 04:35 PM |
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hahaha! Some days it ain't worth getting out of bed!
Since the board doesn't want me to copy or to quote, I'll list it in plain text. On the bottom of page 4 and top of page 5 of THIS thread, cmom and nicodemus briefly chatted about "his" book. 20th July 2007, if I remember rightly.
Apparently he listed it on another thread, but that's ok too. Just a matter of time.
Oh, and cmom? Give it a rest. Taser (or is it Tazer?) and I sat down one evening not too long ago and talked until the wee hours of the morning. He ain't interested in me.
I just wanna read nicodemus' book.
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Veritas
Veteran Member
Posts:435
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| 18 Mar 2012 04:27 PM |
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hmmm...
when I tried to reply to a msg from a while back, it didn't quote and it didn't reply to the right message.
(edited) |
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southernbama
Veteran Member
Posts:385
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| 23 Aug 2007 06:40 AM |
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| Scarey................. |
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Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. Ephesians 6:11-12 |
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Veritas
Veteran Member
Posts:435
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| 22 Aug 2007 07:22 AM |
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a friend of mine from way back passed several polygraph tests...she worked at a local restaurant, and she was bad to steal money out of her register, but in her mind, she was in a battle with her employer....her employer was doing her wrong, or so she felt, and once she declared war on him, she "captured" the money...
it sounds silly, but it worked for her! she used to brag about it...
it's all in the mind...if you don't feel guilt, you'll pass the test. |
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Carolyn_S
Senior Member
Posts:1363
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| 21 Aug 2007 10:52 AM |
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cmom, i used to hear that people would use one of the beta blocker drugs to help them pass the test. a beta blocker in essence interferes with the adrenalin "fight or flight" response. it keeps your heart level slow and steady and is used for BP and atrial dysrythmias. as a matter of fact thats what i take atenolol for - the PAC arrythmia. they probably blood test folks to see what they have in their blood before the LDT is given if its FBI or such. as a side note, beta blockers were used experimentally at one time to diminish test anxiety with college students who had difficulty passing tests due to that. it worked on a friend of mine.
i have heard that those individuals with sociopathic personality disorder can easily pass the LDT- they don't care about anyone, think its their "right" to do what they do so they feel no guilt. therefore, no adrenalin response. don't know if that is ALWAYS true but studied it in abnormal psych class eons ago.... |
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~~Some days it just doesn't seem worth the effort to gnaw through the straps...~~
_____________________________________
**Seether Fan**
Shaun Morgan is my GASOLINE |
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cmom
Senior Member
Posts:1340
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| 21 Aug 2007 10:41 AM |
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Thank you Carolyn,that is great,you posted a good thing...thanks |
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Carolyn_S
Senior Member
Posts:1363
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| 21 Aug 2007 10:33 AM |
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You hear about lie detectors all the time in police investigations, and sometimes a person applying for a job will have to undergo a polygraph test (for example, certain government jobs with the FBI or CIA require polygraph tests). The goal of a lie detector is to see if the person is telling the truth or lying when answering certain questions.
When a person takes a polygraph test, four to six sensors are attached to him. A polygraph is a machine in which the multiple ("poly" signals from the sensors are recorded on a single strip of moving paper ("graph" . The sensors usually record:
- The person's breathing rate
- The person's pulse
- The person's blood pressure
- The person's perspiration
Sometimes a polygraph will also record things like arm and leg movement.
When the polygraph test starts, the questioner asks three or four simple questions to establish the norms for the person's signals. Then the real questions being tested by the polygraph are asked. Throughout questioning, all of the person's signals are recorded on the moving paper.
Both during and after the test, a polygraph examiner can look at the graphs and can see whether the vital signs changed significantly on any of the questions. In general, a significant change (such as a faster heart rate, higher blood pressure, increased perspiration) indicates that the person is lying.
When a well-trained examiner uses a polygraph, he or she can detect lying with high accuracy. However, because the examiner's interpretation is subjective and because different people react differently to lying, a polygraph test is not perfect and can be fooled.
this was below this info::::::
Here is a hard, cold fact: You have a 50% chance of failing your polygraph test, just because you're nervous - even if you're telling the truth!
But here is the good news: When you get properly prepared, you will be able to pass 100% of the time - nervous or not - lying or not - NO MATTER WHAT!
Police polygraph expert Doug Williams will get you properly prepared to pass your polygraph test by teaching you; (a) how the polygraph works, (b) how to manipulate reactions to the right questions, (c) how to avoid reacting to the wrong questions. In other words, you will learn the right way to produce a perfect, truthful polygraph chart!
POLYGRAPH.com is the exclusive source for all three elements necessary to insure you are properly prepared to always pass your polygraph test.
1. An up-to-date, easy to understand manual with practice exams.
You will quickly learn the right way to pass your test. Doug's manual provides clear, simple, step-by-step directions in a few easy to understand pages.
It goes way beyond so-called "countermeasures", and it is undetectable by the examiner because it simply teaches you exactly how to produce a perfect, realistic, truthful polygraph chart. It is tested and proven to work on both the analog and the newest computer polygraph instruments.
You will be taught how to always pass every type of polygraph and voice stress test - including pre-employment tests for POLICE, SHERIFF, HIGHWAY PATROL, FIREFIGHTER, FBI, SECRET SERVICE, CIA, NSA, DIA, (and all other local, state, and federal law enforcement and intelligence agencies), as well as periodic, criminal, specific issue, full scope, life style, probationary, and spouse/partner fidelity.
The manual also contains practice exams with current polygraph test questions for each type of test. The manual tells you the questions you will be asked and tells you how you are to respond to each of the questions.
interesting huh?
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~~Some days it just doesn't seem worth the effort to gnaw through the straps...~~
_____________________________________
**Seether Fan**
Shaun Morgan is my GASOLINE |
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cmom
Senior Member
Posts:1340
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| 20 Aug 2007 07:15 AM |
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Hey Southernbama,well,think that the police want to see if the person being tested is 100% truthful,if not then they prob investagate this person more.. |
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Carolyn_S
Senior Member
Posts:1363
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| 18 Aug 2007 10:08 AM |
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poor people don't get the same type of defense that the rich do. thats a fact. however you can't let the "poor" card (i just coined a phrase, haha) stand in the way of a murder investigation. if my understanding is correct, mr b gave facts in the case ony known to LE and the killer but LE didn't feel they had the evidence (forensic) to convict. not being brought to trial doesn't prove innocense |
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~~Some days it just doesn't seem worth the effort to gnaw through the straps...~~
_____________________________________
**Seether Fan**
Shaun Morgan is my GASOLINE |
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VenusFlyTrap
Senior Member
Posts:710
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| 18 Aug 2007 09:39 AM |
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| Thelma, to a degree I agree with you but for the most part I think the I am poor and it's unfair is self crippling. |
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Disclaimer: I VenusFlyTrap post under one moniker only. If the author of a post doesn't say "VenusFlyTrap", it isn't me. |
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southernbama
Veteran Member
Posts:385
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| 18 Aug 2007 09:23 AM |
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| Oh please............not the because I am poor, because I am black, because I am white attitude. I know some of Barrentine's relatives. No one is picking on him because he is poor. |
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Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. Ephesians 6:11-12 |
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thelmalou
New Member
Posts:7
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| 18 Aug 2007 09:11 AM |
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OF COURSE NOT VENUS,BUT POOR ARE AND WILL ALWAYS BE LOOKED AT DIFFERENTLY. PEOPLE WITH MONEY AND CONNECTIONS ALWAYS HAVE A BETTER CHANCE. THEY HAVE MONEY FOR THE BEST LAWYERS AND ETC.... |
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VenusFlyTrap
Senior Member
Posts:710
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| 18 Aug 2007 08:51 AM |
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| Hey Thelma, does being poor and greedy make people exempt from crime? |
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Disclaimer: I VenusFlyTrap post under one moniker only. If the author of a post doesn't say "VenusFlyTrap", it isn't me. |
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thelmalou
New Member
Posts:7
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| 18 Aug 2007 08:43 AM |
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YOU GUYS ARE OFF TRACK. DOES ANYONE HERE KNOW BARRENTINE? SURE I DO BELIEVE HE HAS BEEN TOLD SOMETHING OR MAYBE EVEN SEEN SOMETHING HE WAS NOT SUPPOSED TO, BUT HE WAS JUST A POOR GUY HOPING TO GET SOME REWARD MONEY. AS ALWAYS, PUT FOCUS ON THE ONE WHO IS POOR AND DOESNT COME FROM MONEY. |
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southernbama
Veteran Member
Posts:385
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| 18 Aug 2007 06:23 AM |
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| If a polygraph is not admissable in court, why do they waste time doing it? |
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Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. Ephesians 6:11-12 |
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Carolyn_S
Senior Member
Posts:1363
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| 18 Aug 2007 04:41 AM |
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| as sabnock just pointed out i get impatient and hit it twice....sorry guys |
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~~Some days it just doesn't seem worth the effort to gnaw through the straps...~~
_____________________________________
**Seether Fan**
Shaun Morgan is my GASOLINE |
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Carolyn_S
Senior Member
Posts:1363
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| 18 Aug 2007 04:37 AM |
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| damn it these double posts |
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~~Some days it just doesn't seem worth the effort to gnaw through the straps...~~
_____________________________________
**Seether Fan**
Shaun Morgan is my GASOLINE |
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Carolyn_S
Senior Member
Posts:1363
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| 18 Aug 2007 04:35 AM |
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my husband joined the state troopers in 65 and he didn't have to take one but the state police might be different.
polygraph - its beatable. it is a reflection of your stress response. if you are really a good liar then you can beat it.
not me, i feel guilty when anybody asks me stuff that i didn't do!!!! |
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~~Some days it just doesn't seem worth the effort to gnaw through the straps...~~
_____________________________________
**Seether Fan**
Shaun Morgan is my GASOLINE |
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Carolyn_S
Senior Member
Posts:1363
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| 18 Aug 2007 04:35 AM |
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my husband joined the state troopers in 65 and he didn't have to take one but the state police might be different.
polygraph - its beatable. it is a reflection of your stress response. if you are really a good liar then you can beat it.
not me, i feel guilty when anybody asks me stuff that i didn't do!!!! |
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~~Some days it just doesn't seem worth the effort to gnaw through the straps...~~
_____________________________________
**Seether Fan**
Shaun Morgan is my GASOLINE |
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Carolyn_S
Senior Member
Posts:1363
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| 18 Aug 2007 04:34 AM |
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my husband joined the state troopers in 65 and he didn't have to take one but the state police might be different.
polygraph - its beatable. it is a reflection of your stress response. if you are really a good liar then you can beat it.
not me, i feel guilty when anybody asks me stuff that i didn't do!!!! |
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~~Some days it just doesn't seem worth the effort to gnaw through the straps...~~
_____________________________________
**Seether Fan**
Shaun Morgan is my GASOLINE |
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Carolyn_S
Senior Member
Posts:1363
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| 18 Aug 2007 02:21 AM |
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i sure hope they are keeping up with gilligan, er, mr b.
i heard he left the area but then i heard he was living in daleville.

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~~Some days it just doesn't seem worth the effort to gnaw through the straps...~~
_____________________________________
**Seether Fan**
Shaun Morgan is my GASOLINE |
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Veritas
Veteran Member
Posts:435
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| 18 Aug 2007 02:11 AM |
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| not sure, but haven't the liberal courts all but forbidden polygraph tests? I know you have to take one before u can become a cop (I applied for the academy in Montgomery, in 1978) but testing a suspect is a bit different... |
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thelmalou
New Member
Posts:7
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| 18 Aug 2007 12:53 AM |
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I WOULD ONLY HOPE THEY GAVE HIM A POLYGRAM TEST. THAT PROBABLY COULD HAVE SAVED SOME TIME |
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southernbama
Veteran Member
Posts:385
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| 17 Aug 2007 07:36 AM |
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| If he's not completely off the hook, are the police keeping track of where he is? |
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Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. Ephesians 6:11-12 |
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Carolyn_S
Senior Member
Posts:1363
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| 17 Aug 2007 06:22 AM |
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i don't think that Mr B is off the hook- but i do feel that maybe the evidence was compromised and that they didn't want to try and prosecute a case that they might lose. double jeopardy and all that.... maybe we are all being skeptical and OPD has a genius case cooked up....they are just not sharing all their info with us |
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~~Some days it just doesn't seem worth the effort to gnaw through the straps...~~
_____________________________________
**Seether Fan**
Shaun Morgan is my GASOLINE |
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cmom
Senior Member
Posts:1340
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| 17 Aug 2007 05:36 AM |
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Veritas,didnt see this post you put up till today.
For the life of me,I cant understand how anyone could cover up for someone that has murdered two young girls,and if someone has,they will be caught sooner or later.Why risk being caught...it doesnt make sense to me,but know it can happen.I hope no one is holding back info on this case.I hope the Al Attr Generals office really looks into this,for maybe theres something OPD missed.Things like that can happen
I |
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cmom
Senior Member
Posts:1340
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| 17 Aug 2007 05:27 AM |
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Hey Southernbama
I feel hes not off the hook,I read Pats chronology too.If he is,think its a mistake..you know,maybe he was so scared after being questioned so much,is why he kept changing things...
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southernbama
Veteran Member
Posts:385
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| 17 Aug 2007 04:07 AM |
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| I read back over Pat's chronology last night and from what that says Barrentine is not completely off the hook. Anyone else feel this way? |
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Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. Ephesians 6:11-12 |
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Carolyn_S
Senior Member
Posts:1363
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| 17 Aug 2007 03:27 AM |
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cmom great minds think alike----> 
maybe OPD just didn't have their ducks in a row evidence wise and couldn't prove it :beyond a reasonable doubt:
but yeah i think Mr B might've been """the assistant""" |
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~~Some days it just doesn't seem worth the effort to gnaw through the straps...~~
_____________________________________
**Seether Fan**
Shaun Morgan is my GASOLINE |
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Carolyn_S
Senior Member
Posts:1363
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| 17 Aug 2007 03:27 AM |
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cmom great minds think alike----> 
maybe OPD just didn't have their ducks in a row evidence wise and couldn't prove it :beyond a reasonable doubt:
but yeah i think Mr B might've been """the assistant""" |
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~~Some days it just doesn't seem worth the effort to gnaw through the straps...~~
_____________________________________
**Seether Fan**
Shaun Morgan is my GASOLINE |
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cmom
Senior Member
Posts:1340
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| 17 Aug 2007 03:17 AM |
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I too believe Barrentine knew something,believe he saw something,have always believed that..He may have not been involved with the murders,but I believe he knows something,and dont think its next to nothing, |
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Carolyn_S
Senior Member
Posts:1363
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| 17 Aug 2007 02:49 AM |
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Barrentine- now theres a bit of a sticky wicket....
so he's not the sharpest tool in the shed but i'm not totally convinced he's 100% innocent...
so what if the killer- the head madman
if you will.....
needed somebody to assist him with some of the scut work or details....
maybe MrB was like Gilligan to the Skipper.....
the killers' Man Friday.....
wouldn't have to be too smart for that |
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~~Some days it just doesn't seem worth the effort to gnaw through the straps...~~
_____________________________________
**Seether Fan**
Shaun Morgan is my GASOLINE |
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VenusFlyTrap
Senior Member
Posts:710
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| 17 Aug 2007 02:23 AM |
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Posted By Veritas on 08/17/2007 2:11 PM
Posted By spnshacres on 07/23/2007 11:03 PM
I wish we could get a answer to WHY the Reward money was froze stopped etc.. Seems there is mor eto the story than meets the eye. Makes me wonder if OPD or someoen else is comvering up for someone or something. Just my 2cent
whether or not it's true, about the money being frozen, it tends to make people afraid to approach OPD with any possible information....I mean, think about it. If you or I or anybody else came up with something new, and went to the OPD with it, WHAT IF OPD is actually covering for someone? Would they just ignore the new info? Would they go after the one with the new info?
It's a sobering thought, and I'd love for OPD to address that. If OPD isn't covering for someone, and is truly open to new ideas and theories, they really need to say so. I wonder how many people out there are holding back, afraid they will wind up like Barrentine...
To a degree i can agree with you. It is scary approaching OPD with stuff BUT I think Barrentine does know something about the murders, even if it's next to nothing and he made it bigger than he should have, I believe he knows something. |
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Disclaimer: I VenusFlyTrap post under one moniker only. If the author of a post doesn't say "VenusFlyTrap", it isn't me. |
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Destiny
New Member
Posts:11
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| 17 Aug 2007 01:18 AM |
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| oops, don't know what that gibberish is in the post........ |
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Destiny
New Member
Posts:11
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| 17 Aug 2007 01:17 AM |
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From WTVY
Court-TV aired a show Wednesday night, called "Haunting Evidence", which focused on the J.B. Beasley and Tracie Hawlett murder case.
Tracie Hawlett's mother, Carol remembers the deaths of the girls as if it were yesterday.
<script language="Javascript" type="text/javascript">if (self['plpm'] && plpm['Mid-Story Ad']) document.write('| ');if (self['plpm'] && plpm['Mid-Story Ad']){ document.write(plpm['Mid-Story Ad']);} else { if(self['plurp'] && plurp['97']){} else {document.write(''); } }if (self['plpm'] && plpm['Mid-Story Ad']) document.write(' | ');</script>
Incoming high school seniors J.B. Beasley and Tracie Hawlett were found shot to death in the trunk of J.B.’s car on August 1st, 1999.
Court-TV’s psychic profiler and a paranormal investigator came to the Wiregrass to pinpoint what happened to the girls.
According to their investigation, they say after the girls called home, they were followed by a stranger who eventually forced them into a remote location.
They say the suspect performed sexual acts then shot them close-range.
“I think it was very close. I was very impressed with the way that it turned out. I think they were right on key with everything that happened that night,” said Carol Roberts.
A composite sketch was drawn based on the psychic’s description, but police have not confirmed if they believe that's the suspect.
Crime Stoppers is offering a $45,000 dollar reward. If you have any information call 774-9999.
You would think that by making this statement, the reward money is still there. |
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Veritas
Veteran Member
Posts:435
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| 17 Aug 2007 01:11 AM |
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Posted By spnshacres on 07/23/2007 11:03 PM
I wish we could get a answer to WHY the Reward money was froze stopped etc.. Seems there is mor eto the story than meets the eye. Makes me wonder if OPD or someoen else is comvering up for someone or something. Just my 2cent
whether or not it's true, about the money being frozen, it tends to make people afraid to approach OPD with any possible information....I mean, think about it. If you or I or anybody else came up with something new, and went to the OPD with it, WHAT IF OPD is actually covering for someone? Would they just ignore the new info? Would they go after the one with the new info?
It's a sobering thought, and I'd love for OPD to address that. If OPD isn't covering for someone, and is truly open to new ideas and theories, they really need to say so. I wonder how many people out there are holding back, afraid they will wind up like Barrentine... |
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VenusFlyTrap
Senior Member
Posts:710
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| 24 Jul 2007 10:46 AM |
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| I agree Namom.... Spellman, through SPLC was given a chance to kill again. Regardless of race and income!!!! |
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Disclaimer: I VenusFlyTrap post under one moniker only. If the author of a post doesn't say "VenusFlyTrap", it isn't me. |
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Carolyn_S
Senior Member
Posts:1363
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| 24 Jul 2007 01:41 AM |
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yes, i don't think thatorganization looks at who is guilty or innocent but rather sees the challenge and publicity |
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~~Some days it just doesn't seem worth the effort to gnaw through the straps...~~
_____________________________________
**Seether Fan**
Shaun Morgan is my GASOLINE |
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NAMOM
Advanced Member
Posts:130
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| 24 Jul 2007 12:07 AM |
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| The SPLC is an organization that helps let MONSTERS out of prison so that the can go on to murder more people....and thats all I have to say. |
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southernbama
Veteran Member
Posts:385
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| 23 Jul 2007 11:54 AM |
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| Carolyn, you never know though about some people, some murderers do like media attention as was in my previous post. I am frankly getting burnt out on all the different stories. |
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Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. Ephesians 6:11-12 |
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Carolyn_S
Senior Member
Posts:1363
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| 23 Jul 2007 11:04 AM |
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veritas, i kind of see what you are saying. OPD/ABI/FBI cleared you and it'd take somebody REALLY FREAKIN' COCKY to show up on here and stir this up.
nicod- what is your input to what i asked/stated. are you a big biker guy with tattoos? are you or were you affiliated with the federal drug enforcement guys? i heard that too.
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~~Some days it just doesn't seem worth the effort to gnaw through the straps...~~
_____________________________________
**Seether Fan**
Shaun Morgan is my GASOLINE |
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lbrtyrsk
Veteran Member
Posts:265
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| 23 Jul 2007 10:43 AM |
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| I guess my post applied to more people than I thought!!!!! |
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| "semper fidelis " |
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spnshacres
Advanced Member
Posts:146
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| 23 Jul 2007 10:36 AM |
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| awww i was right.. Just wanted to make sure..Thank you for clerification |
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spnshacres
Advanced Member
Posts:146
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| 23 Jul 2007 10:36 AM |
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| awww i was right.. Just wanted to make sure.. |
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Veritas
Veteran Member
Posts:435
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| 23 Jul 2007 10:34 AM |
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| SPLC...southern poverty law center. If you're white, and you do something to a low-income-non-white, SPLC will be on your azz like a duck on a june bug! HOWEVER, when low income people of all races lose their jobs in Alabama, being pushed out by employers who replace them with mexicans, the SPLC won't get involved. When an employer advertises in the papers that "hispanic applicants are welcome", it implies that non-hispanic applicants are NOT welcome. Racial preferences in hiring. And will the SPLC interfere? nope. |
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Veritas
Veteran Member
Posts:435
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| 23 Jul 2007 10:29 AM |
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| spnshacres, that's the question that got this started in the first place....and you're right. The more you dwell on that question, the more it looks like $45,000 was all they could match. Shush money, so to speak. And I've never been shy about saying that I believe the killer(s) are reading this board....I wonder sometimes, supposing that we're on the right track, what is going thru their minds as they read our posts, knowing that we are getting close, but can't do a damn thing about it without help from OPD.... |
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spnshacres
Advanced Member
Posts:146
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| 23 Jul 2007 10:29 AM |
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| me being a non-intelligent person what is SPLC |
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Veritas
Veteran Member
Posts:435
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| 23 Jul 2007 10:15 AM |
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| haha...Peanut, it's not delusions of grandeur. I rather look FORWARD to seeing my name listed by the SPLC... |
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Veritas
Veteran Member
Posts:435
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| 23 Jul 2007 10:09 AM |
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| www.shepherdschapel.com is another one....you already know www.pcog.org from my earlier post. www.kingdavid.org/genealogy.htm is one that shows the ancestry of Queen Elizabeth back to King David. http://jahtruth.net/ireland.htm is a wealth of information that depends more on secular history than blind faith in the Bible. Proves from Irish annals that Jeremiah the Prophet brought the daughter of Zedekiah to Ireland, to heal the Pharez/Zarah breach. Also shows the location of the Ark of the Covenant. All of these are sites that teach what I believe, and NOT ONE OF THEM is blocked by netnanny or the other programs. They're also not listed by the SPLC. |
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spnshacres
Advanced Member
Posts:146
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| 23 Jul 2007 10:03 AM |
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| I wish we could get a answer to WHY the Reward money was froze stopped etc.. Seems there is mor eto the story than meets the eye. Makes me wonder if OPD or someoen else is comvering up for someone or something. Just my 2cent |
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peanut804
Advanced Member
Posts:168
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| 23 Jul 2007 09:50 AM |
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| OMG!!!! Does anyone else hear delusions of granduer? |
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Veritas
Veteran Member
Posts:435
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| 23 Jul 2007 09:34 AM |
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Do You know that this group is on the FBI's watch list as a homegrown domestic terrorist group??
Yes, Bluebeard, I know. I don't doubt for a second that I'm on that list myself. If I'm not, I will be, eventually. Being on that list is nothing. I have purchased, LEGALLY, several assault rifles over the past few years. Frizzle-headed Morris Dees gathers up a bunch of names so that he can go crying to "deep pockets" and beg for more money to keep these inbred illiterate murderous bastards like me under surveillance. hahaha! It's a money game. The more sheep-like people they can scare, the more donations they receive. The SPLC once interviewed me to be a part of their armed security team at the Montgomery headquarters! They're not worried about me, OR ANYBODY LIKE ME.......The FBI knows about my beliefs. Matter of fact, we talked about them as much or MORE than we talked about the murders! I even brought them some literature.....Before it was over, we shook hands and mutually agreed that we were more alike than different......And 2 days later, I was dispatched on a load to Canada. I called the agent and told him, and he laughed. He told me I didn't need to clear anything with anybody, because he knew I wasn't "the one".... |
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southernbama
Veteran Member
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| 23 Jul 2007 09:17 AM |
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| You can't put a price on people's lives.............. |
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Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. Ephesians 6:11-12 |
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Veritas
Veteran Member
Posts:435
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| 23 Jul 2007 09:12 AM |
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| I vote to keep VFT....AND david AND nicodemus AND everybody else. hahah!!! One of these days we'll get past the arguing, and we'll get to the bottom of this!!! Can you imagine the party we could have on $45,000? |
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Carolyn_S
Senior Member
Posts:1363
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| 23 Jul 2007 08:12 AM |
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yeah DD, let us keep hashing this out about the girls b/c you never know- maybe somebody will come up with some useful info.
vft is a good girl- i think y'all just have a severe personality conflict. |
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~~Some days it just doesn't seem worth the effort to gnaw through the straps...~~
_____________________________________
**Seether Fan**
Shaun Morgan is my GASOLINE |
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AMTTOWING
Veteran Member
Posts:494
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| 23 Jul 2007 08:04 AM |
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SORRY ! |
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spnshacres
Advanced Member
Posts:146
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| 23 Jul 2007 07:56 AM |
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| David please dont bring that into this thread please. This is about the girls please post it in your's and venus's thread |
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VenusFlyTrap
Senior Member
Posts:710
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| 23 Jul 2007 07:46 AM |
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| Makes you wonder doesn't it Carolyn? |
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Disclaimer: I VenusFlyTrap post under one moniker only. If the author of a post doesn't say "VenusFlyTrap", it isn't me. |
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AMTTOWING
Veteran Member
Posts:494
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| 23 Jul 2007 07:17 AM |
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| OZMOSE OR WHAT EVER YOUR, PROBABLY ACTUALLY VFT , JUST TRYING TO BLOW YOUR OWN HORN, VFT, I CAN'T HEAR YOU! |
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ozmomof3
New Member
Posts:4
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| 23 Jul 2007 05:48 AM |
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My Oh My AMT What webbs we weave. VFT I enjoy reading your post. |
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AMTTOWING
Veteran Member
Posts:494
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| 23 Jul 2007 03:59 AM |
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| HELLO, EVERYBODY BAN VFT, BAN VFT, BAN VFT, BAN VFT, BAN VFT, BAN VFT, BAN VFT!!!!! TROUBLE MAKERS NOT WELCOME ! |
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lbrtyrsk
Veteran Member
Posts:265
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| 23 Jul 2007 12:32 AM |
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Just sounds to me like a few uninportant people trying to sound important.
Oh by the way. Can either of you tell me the truth about JFK or Jimmy Hoffa. I'm just dying to know. |
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| "semper fidelis " |
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Carolyn_S
Senior Member
Posts:1363
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| 22 Jul 2007 10:34 AM |
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| well one thing is for sure-----------if these guys are telling the truth somebody with OPD, ABI etc has some REALLY LOOSE LIPS........................................................... |
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~~Some days it just doesn't seem worth the effort to gnaw through the straps...~~
_____________________________________
**Seether Fan**
Shaun Morgan is my GASOLINE |
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Veritas
Veteran Member
Posts:435
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| 22 Jul 2007 08:56 AM |
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| Carolyn, this relationship between me and Nicodemus is indeed twisted...hahah! He knows I'm not the killer. OPD knows it too. The killer wouldn't go to such lengths to bring this case back into the limelight. He would try to shush it up!!! I saw Nic at the preliminary hearing. He's a big tattooed man. Biker type. Better watch what u say around him coz he'll kick your azz! Actually fits the description given by Barrentine as the killer. (I'm not suggesting he IS the killer....just noting the similarity)....and from what one person has told me, he and Barrentine are friends.....he's posted quite a few things about me...embarrassing things that would make a smarter man back off, haha!.....the WORST they show about me is that I have used questionable judgement in the past. QUESTIONABLE JUDGEMENT....NOTHING ILLEGAL. From our respective posts, I'd say that he and I can be summed up in one quick sentence: I want this case to remain VERY MUCH in the public's eye, and for some reason, Nic seems to want me and this case to turn tail and fade away into the night.....That leads to an ugly question....WHY would somebody want me to go away and stop asking questions?????? IF the OPD is indeed monitoring wiregrass.com, so much the better. I WELCOME THEIR ATTENTION. I hope WTVY and WDHN are here, too. |
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Veritas
Veteran Member
Posts:435
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| 22 Jul 2007 08:27 AM |
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| Carolyn, yes ma'am, your first instinct about me was right. Now, don't get me wrong, I have done my homework. JB was my friend. Nothing more, just a friend, but I felt bad for her. ALL THE ADULTS who were legally and morally responsible for getting her off to a good start were letting her down. She came to me because I would listen to her. Not judge her. Not try to seduce her. Just sit and listen and be on her side. You, being a woman, surely you understand THAT....It's complicated, but I was friends with several people who were friends with other people, and from this "network" I was able to learn a LOT. |
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Smokey
Advanced Member
Posts:62
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| 22 Jul 2007 04:46 AM |
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Yea I think you are right. I thought I knew something before about it. They have shown me just how little I really knew.
Bluebeard, I knew that I just choose to pass on posting it. |
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VenusFlyTrap
Senior Member
Posts:710
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| 22 Jul 2007 04:09 AM |
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| cmom, I don't think the posts detailing the crimes by either 3 of them (Veritas, Advocate and Nicodemus) is meant to be a question session but more of an inform the masses about what they believe they know about the other one or others.
Regardless they have my attention. |
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Disclaimer: I VenusFlyTrap post under one moniker only. If the author of a post doesn't say "VenusFlyTrap", it isn't me. |
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cmom
Senior Member
Posts:1340
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| 22 Jul 2007 03:22 AM |
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| nicodemus,you didnt answer my question,how do you know that J.B. was more promicious and Tracie was a Virgin? |
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Bluebeard
Advanced Member
Posts:191
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| 22 Jul 2007 12:46 AM |
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Posted By Smokey on 07/21/2007 1:35 AM I am not being mean and I am not attacking your religion but Veritas I have had a chance to read thru some of the other posts. I think the reason they are questioning you is because of what is in the website you posted earlier in another thread. your website - http://www.kingidentity.com/opening statement " Kingdom Identity Ministries is a Politically Incorrect Christian Identity outreach ministry to God's chosen race (true Israel, the White, European peoples). "
Do You know that this group is on the FBI's watch list as a homegrown domestic terrorist group??
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/...p?T=33&m=5
http://foia.fbi.gov/foiaindex/chris...entity.htm |
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southernbama
Veteran Member
Posts:385
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| 22 Jul 2007 12:31 AM |
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Posted By Veritas on 07/22/2007 9:56 AM Carolyn, this relationship between me and Nicodemus is indeed twisted...hahah! He knows I'm not the killer. OPD knows it too. The killer wouldn't go to such lengths to bring this case back into the limelight. He would try to shush it up!!! I saw Nic at the preliminary hearing. He's a big tattooed man. Biker type. Better watch what u say around him coz he'll kick your azz! Actually fits the description given by Barrentine as the killer. (I'm not suggesting he IS the killer....just noting the similarity)....and from what one person has told me, he and Barrentine are friends.....he's posted quite a few things about me...embarrassing things that would make a smarter man back off, haha!.....the WORST they show about me is that I have used questionable judgement in the past. QUESTIONABLE JUDGEMENT....NOTHING ILLEGAL. From our respective posts, I'd say that he and I can be summed up in one quick sentence: I want this case to remain VERY MUCH in the public's eye, and for some reason, Nic seems to want me and this case to turn tail and fade away into the night.....That leads to an ugly question....WHY would somebody want me to go away and stop asking questions?????? IF the OPD is indeed monitoring wiregrass.com, so much the better. I WELCOME THEIR ATTENTION. I hope WTVY and WDHN are here, too.
Why the Killers Kill From the growing body of research on the underlying motives behind multiple murders, it appears that serial killers and mass murders are driven by very different motivations. A number of theories have been developed to explain typologies of serial killers, as well as what inspires their behavior. Although a small number of these killers are motivated by financial gain (such as by collecting on insurance payments), most of them are driven by the desire physically or sexually to dominate and terrorize others. Some kill simply to silence their victims, while others enjoy the killing itself. Many killers enjoy media and law-enforcement attention, and when apprehended, not only confess to their crimes but sometimes even exaggerate how many murders they have committed.
http://salempress.com/Store/samples/criminal_justice/criminal_justice_murders_mass_and_serial.htm
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Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. Ephesians 6:11-12 |
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devils advocate
Veteran Member
Posts:346
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| 21 Jul 2007 11:57 AM |
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| ok now I have a few questions.. Who said they were shot in the heart? I must have missed something. And yes I do have multiple personalities,but there is only one on here. As far as accusations I didn't see any I only saw questions. And I wasn't trying to be mean to venus I was only trying to explain a point she aparently didn't understand. I'm no einstein but I did stay at a holiday inn express once. Once again the devils advocate gets misunderstood. |
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spnshacres
Advanced Member
Posts:146
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| 21 Jul 2007 11:49 AM |
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| Also why is it when someone makes a comment here in your thread you automatically say is it hitting close to home or do they have something to hide.. I do agree with you on a few things.. THe semen found on which ever ones clothing item they found it on.. I do agree its not the killers.. due to the killer would be insane to do that.. That would like saying come get me police.. I also agree with another point someone made.. I dont not believe they were killed on Herring.. I think they were killed else where and brought there as a trophy. |
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spnshacres
Advanced Member
Posts:146
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| 21 Jul 2007 11:42 AM |
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| i want it solved as much as you do.. But why attack me or my mentality in a simple question about your religion.. I also if you will read what i posted..if im wrong my apology in advance, Did you not see that part? It was a simple question |
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Veritas
Veteran Member
Posts:435
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| 21 Jul 2007 11:39 AM |
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| Regardless of whether you're the village idiot or an Einstein, the question still sticks in my craw...WHY are you and nicodemus attacking me? Don't you two want this case solved???? |
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spnshacres
Advanced Member
Posts:146
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| 21 Jul 2007 11:33 AM |
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| This is almost amusing.. I simply ask a question and state im not attacking you that it was a question. As for my intelligence.. Ill answer that easy for you. IM DUMB.. There where you dont have to say it.. As for hitting close to home.. NO i know where i was that day i can prove it.. But for you its none of your concerns.. Just that i was asking. But you seem to make yourself feel better to try and belittle someone.. Its fine i understand peopel like yourself.. You need mental help and i hope you get it... I have my on opinion of what happen but im only human so i might or might not be wrong.. But if my opinion is right.. I will smile so big. But anyways hope you sleep well tonight and be careful driving your truck. |
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Veritas
Veteran Member
Posts:435
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| 21 Jul 2007 11:26 AM |
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| *grin* I am not devil's advocate. I actually enjoy reading VenusFlyTrap's posts. I told her that she sounded like an FBI agent once or twice, but that was meant in good humour. Devil's advocate has been mean to Venus, which you won't see from me. A lot of these "new" screen names aren't new. They've came back from 7 years ago, because something has upset them.... |
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southernbama
Veteran Member
Posts:385
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| 21 Jul 2007 11:17 AM |
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| You were reading my mind! I just emailed my friend about it. It isn't right. He should have known better than to get that close to a minor. |
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Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. Ephesians 6:11-12 |
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Veritas
Veteran Member
Posts:435
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| 21 Jul 2007 11:16 AM |
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| Allright echogirl!!! Your english has improved MARKEDLY! Reckon maybe you were just pretending to be an illiterate redneck in your earlier posts? Since you seem to be a bit more intelligent than your earlier post would indicate, answer me this....why are you attacking me? Am I too close to the truth for you? Perhaps asking questions that go in a direction you don't want them to go??? You know, after all, THERE ARE TWO SCENARIOS that could explain JB's death. One was that somebody was afraid JB was chasing her husband. The other was that somebody was furious when JB's superior dance skills got her promoted over a fellow dancer. And, PLEASE, tell me tell me WHERE have I said that the white race is the pure race? In every group, there are the fringe elements that seem to attract all the attention. I am not a part of the fringe. I posted a link to a book that explains exactly what I believe, and you won't find ANY racism in that book. Have you read it? It's a free, 3 meg download. Go to www.pcog.org and click literature library. When the next page opens up, scroll down and click the "PDF" button to the right of "United States and Britain in Prophecy". |
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peanut804
Advanced Member
Posts:168
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| 21 Jul 2007 11:04 AM |
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Posted By nicodemus on 07/20/2007 5:54 PM Since you started this thread why not tell the good folks exactly haow close you were with J.B. How you allowed her and her friends to use your apartment while you were out of town, and oh! Yes yor brags about having had an affair with her, I believe you even stated she would come to your apt. all hours of the night. Also wasn't your Alibi that you were in another town brushing hair that night? ( KINKY FOR A TRUCK DRIVE HUH!)
Then we can discuss the call you made to Dothan P.D. Communication center a few weeks prior to this wasn't it to the effect that you had lost your keys and was afraid someone might get into your apt. and plant something. I guess my question is if you rent from an apartment complex they have a mgr. maintence man, plus you had a girlfriend with a key, why would you not call them instead of the p.d. to get your locks changed and have someone there that you trust to watch your place for you. I mean it seems to me a call like that would certainly make police officers wonder what you might have in your apt.
And Why did you move out shortly after that?
Then there is the big question did you not state in a letter that J.B. hugged an african boy beneath the bright lights of a service station in headland?
Quiet Frankly you sound like a person of interest to me!
I'd really like Veritas to tell us a little more about a 40ish man's "friendship' with a teenage girl! Don't think he will be able to explain or justify how anything positive could come out of that. Maybe all these threads have to do with a guilty conscience, not for having been around when she was killed but having introduced her to a way of life he knows is responsible indirectly for her death.
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spnshacres
Advanced Member
Posts:146
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| 21 Jul 2007 10:33 AM |
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| Sorry Venus.. I explained who echogirl was.. I will not be using it anymore so now you will get blamed for making it vanish.. Its your fault i tell ya. That poor echogirl is going away.. be ashame.. j/k hahah Hope your having a nice day |
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spnshacres
Advanced Member
Posts:146
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| 21 Jul 2007 10:13 AM |
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| I think of Mr.Ray and Mr.Billy all the time.. I wonder how there doing.. But i know now Mr.Ray is a good man so i know he has shook gods hand many of time.. Wish the market was still open.. i use to buy so much meat there..My kids use to love going in there mr ray ro billy wud give them candy.. |
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peanut804
Advanced Member
Posts:168
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| 21 Jul 2007 10:12 AM |
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| Nicodemus--you are so right! like I said earlier I am new to this and I quickly looked back to the wrong person. It's just confusing with so many threads. I was agreeing with you about Veritas. My sincere apologies to Wrascal. |
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Bluebeard
Advanced Member
Posts:191
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| 21 Jul 2007 09:52 AM |
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Adding my 2 cents
Ray Dillard (the one who use to run the City Market) told several people that he heard shots around midnight at his house. He lived behind the Big Little past the 3 way stop. He told Ozark about this and they didn't want to hear it. He is deceased now but I wonder if they ever investigated that area as the possible site of the shooting |
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Carolyn_S
Senior Member
Posts:1363
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| 21 Jul 2007 09:43 AM |
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~~Some days it just doesn't seem worth the effort to gnaw through the straps...~~
_____________________________________
**Seether Fan**
Shaun Morgan is my GASOLINE |
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Carolyn_S
Senior Member
Posts:1363
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| 21 Jul 2007 09:43 AM |
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~~Some days it just doesn't seem worth the effort to gnaw through the straps...~~
_____________________________________
**Seether Fan**
Shaun Morgan is my GASOLINE |
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Carolyn_S
Senior Member
Posts:1363
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| 21 Jul 2007 09:37 AM |
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OKOKOK!!! my freakin' head is spinning.... so let me cut to the chase-----
veritas, at first i believed you were someone from jb's past who just wanted to re-ignite interest in the girls deaths. you seem to be knowledgeable in this case.
nicodemus, you are also a wealth of info-
its plain you 2 guys know each other and it seems there is no love lost between you.
you are both placing yourself under the watch of whomever OPD has monitoring this board.
however, if either one of you are responsible for any part of this crime you're incredibly stupid to be drawing attention to yourself.
personally i think you are both just playing a game.
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~~Some days it just doesn't seem worth the effort to gnaw through the straps...~~
_____________________________________
**Seether Fan**
Shaun Morgan is my GASOLINE |
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spnshacres
Advanced Member
Posts:146
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| 21 Jul 2007 09:28 AM |
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| I dunno.. Ask nicodemus just wondering myself. |
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Veritas
Veteran Member
Posts:435
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| 21 Jul 2007 09:23 AM |
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| haha...spnshacres, I don't have any information that isn't or hasn't been made public. HOWEVER, nic has tons of info (and is releasing it here in a public forum) that, so far as I know, has never been OFFICIALLY made public. For instance, who would have made it public that Tracie was a virgin? And WHY? 7 years ago, the rumor went around that someone had obtained the autopsy reports illegally. I heard 3rd handed what was in them, but I never saw them. So far as I can remember, NO OPD OFFICER has ever released the report that Tracie was or was not a virgin. Which leads to a fair question: Is nicodemus authorized to release info that hasn't been released by OPD? |
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Veritas
Veteran Member
Posts:435
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| 21 Jul 2007 09:13 AM |
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| Licensed investigator? The OPD investigator laughed out loud when I mentioned that you had been snooping around in everybody's business. He assured me that you were just a wannabe. Or he was lying. Who knows? WHO CARES? Your information about the camcorder is faulty. Have you never heard of America's Funniest Home videos? My g/f was there with me that night. I set up the camera while she was online, not paying attention to me. There was a hook in the ceiling, and a rubber spider was going to be lowered onto her (MY GIRLFRIEND). Someone stopped by unannounced, and needed to use the restroom. I never saw the tape, and have no desire to see the tape. Doubt that it even exists any more. What two consenting adults do in private is nobody's business. Ok, I've answered questions for you, so when are you gonna answer me? Can I see the crime scene photos? |
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spnshacres
Advanced Member
Posts:146
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| 21 Jul 2007 09:04 AM |
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| How can either of you get so much information in refference to the case that only Investigators or the killer would know?? Just a question i got a ham bone tied around my neck with my soap.. So go ahead and attack me. |
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Veritas
Veteran Member
Posts:435
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| 21 Jul 2007 09:00 AM |
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| More and more interesting. You speak as though you had seen the coroner's / autopsy report. How could you get something like that? I never knew such things were public domain (except for people like Anna Nicole, maybe)... |
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Veritas
Veteran Member
Posts:435
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| 21 Jul 2007 09:00 AM |
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| More and more interesting. You speak as though you had seen the coroner's / autopsy report. How could you get something like that? I never knew such things were public domain (except for people like Anna Nicole, maybe)... |
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nicodemus
Advanced Member
Posts:62
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| 21 Jul 2007 08:59 AM |
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| well you are just full of dis information tonite, yes i was a licensed invesigator and yes you had some interesting reasons for being a person of interest. not the least of which was when a little girl found a cam corder running in a pile of clothes taping her on the tolit while at your house swimming or do you not rem,ember that? |
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Veritas
Veteran Member
Posts:435
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| 21 Jul 2007 08:51 AM |
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| ohhhhh, but you are right about one thing, I do feel guilty about something. I wish I had kept the apartment. Maybe then JB could have celebrated her birthday in a SAFE PLACE. |
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Veritas
Veteran Member
Posts:435
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| 21 Jul 2007 08:40 AM |
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| hahahah...you people are so sad! As my ex g/f put it, "half the people in Dothan had a key to that apartment"...whenever JB came over, we NEVER sat together, we hardly even touched each other, except perhaps for a quick hug. There was nothing to be ashamed of, and I refuse to be ashamed of trying to be there when she was having a bad time in her life. The door was never locked, and even if it had been, there were plenty of keys floating around. This secret little love nest that you have conjured up in your minds never existed. But keep on, I'm enjoying this!!! |
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Veritas
Veteran Member
Posts:435
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| 21 Jul 2007 08:33 AM |
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| Oh, and the thing about the guy who came up behind me and tried to rob me and wound up getting cut? You let me see the crime scene photos and I'll tell you ALL ABOUT THE CRACKHEAD... |
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Veritas
Veteran Member
Posts:435
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| 21 Jul 2007 08:31 AM |
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| once again, at the risk of repeating myself, from whom did you get this information? According to the OPD, you are not a licensed investigator. But to answer your questions, since I have nothing to hide, I remember writing something like that to my landlady. So? I paid my rent on time from then on, and when the lease was up, I moved. So? Where is the crime? As far as the information about the way the girls were killed, it's public knowledge. I read. As far as the "don't be afraid brigade", I have no earthly idea what you're talking about. I don't buy "christian" music. Far as that goes, I don't buy ANY music, except perhaps trucker songs. JB didn't get any music from me, unless it was something she borrowed and I never noticed. Once again, you haven't explained how you, apparently a common citizen, could get hold of such things. I don't particularly MIND that you have them, but I'm curious to know HOW. Supposedly the investigation into "persons of interest" wasn't a public domain kind of thing. |
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VenusFlyTrap
Senior Member
Posts:710
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| 21 Jul 2007 08:05 AM |
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Posted By spnshacres on 07/21/2007 7:33 PM hahaha your such a silly woman lol
LOL Spnsh aka echogirl... I am the one enjoying the laughs you have brought.... The ones thinking you are a girl.... Maybe they just haven't come out of the closet yet? You better not bend over... hahaha....
Now it's been brought to my attention that a few of my cousins know you and they know you are NOT me... They too are enjoying the laughs.... You and A. T. better keep out of trouble!!!!
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Disclaimer: I VenusFlyTrap post under one moniker only. If the author of a post doesn't say "VenusFlyTrap", it isn't me. |
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lovingflamepmc
Veteran Member
Posts:322
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| 21 Jul 2007 07:34 AM |
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Posted By Veritas on 07/20/2007 10:44 PM smokey, not meaning to argue with you, but to offer something I heard....about the time of the murders, it was rumoured that Barrentine commented to one of his sisters..."Be careful. We wouldn't want you to wind up like those girls, rolled up in a blanket..." Now, I don't know how true that was. It was only a rumour, and I've NEVER heard it repeated on here or during any interview with PD. However, it was one of the many rumours making the rounds back the, and would have explained the lack of blood on the outside of the car. Do I believe it? Not really. I saw a picture which was printed in the newspaper, and you could see just the hint of a white girl's arm in the picture of the open trunk. That would pretty much throw out the idea of "rolled up in a blanket".
Actually he said that to me up at my dad's shop while he was working there. It was like maybe a couple of days after the murder.
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cmom
Senior Member
Posts:1340
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| 21 Jul 2007 07:10 AM |
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| PS,How do you know that JB was more promicious,and that Tracie was a virgin?
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cmom
Senior Member
Posts:1340
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| 21 Jul 2007 07:06 AM |
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| This has really sent red flags up for me..nicodemus,if one girl was killed appox.around midnight,that was soon after Tracie had called her mother to say she was in Ozark,had been lost,and was coming home,it was stated something like that to Tracies mother.
What makes you wonder then,is how far were the girls killed from where they were found on Herring.Was one killed there on Hearring,and the other taken away,then brought back later,and put in the trunk?One lived alot longer than the other.
Was their car messed up with mud or scratches,maybe made there befour they were killed.I just cant believe that the killer put the car on a Tow truck,drove it to where ever it was that they killed the girls,and put it on Herring.This doesnt make sense to me..If one was killed about 12 midnight,it was soon after Tracie talked to her mother. |
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spnshacres
Advanced Member
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| 21 Jul 2007 06:37 AM |
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| That last comment was to VFT |
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spnshacres
Advanced Member
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| 21 Jul 2007 06:33 AM |
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| hahaha your such a silly woman lol |
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southernbama
Veteran Member
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| 21 Jul 2007 06:31 AM |
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| Oh, To Catch a Predator is on tonight for 24 hours on MSNBC. For those of you who like to see these disgusting pedophiles get captured. |
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Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. Ephesians 6:11-12 |
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VenusFlyTrap
Senior Member
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| 21 Jul 2007 06:27 AM |
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Veritas as much as you want it to be true.... I am NOT echogirl and please don't play with words to make your point with me as it doesn't amuse me! You want me to be a liar then have the balls to call me one!!!!!!!
Posted By Veritas on 07/21/2007 12:16 AM Allright echogirl!!! Your english has improved MARKEDLY! Reckon maybe you were just pretending to be an illiterate redneck in your earlier posts? Since you seem to be a bit more intelligent than your earlier post would indicate, answer me this....why are you attacking me? Am I too close to the truth for you? Perhaps asking questions that go in a direction you don't want them to go??? You know, after all, THERE ARE TWO SCENARIOS that could explain JB's death. One was that somebody was afraid JB was chasing her husband. The other was that somebody was furious when JB's superior dance skills got her promoted over a fellow dancer. And, PLEASE, tell me tell me WHERE have I said that the white race is the pure race? In every group, there are the fringe elements that seem to attract all the attention. I am not a part of the fringe. I posted a link to a book that explains exactly what I believe, and you won't find ANY racism in that book. Have you read it? It's a free, 3 meg download. Go to www.pcog.org and click literature library. When the next page opens up, scroll down and click the "PDF" button to the right of "United States and Britain in Prophecy".
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Disclaimer: I VenusFlyTrap post under one moniker only. If the author of a post doesn't say "VenusFlyTrap", it isn't me. |
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VenusFlyTrap
Senior Member
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| 21 Jul 2007 06:06 AM |
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| Spnsh, shame is a good thing, it keeps us humble... Those who don't know shame are the ones capable of doing terrible things.
Since you are me and I am you would care to share with me how I am as a man? I just can't seem to recall any memory of being a man but since you are a man and I am you or are you me? Anyway, I would like to know how my life as a man is, please tell me. LOL
Your life as a woman is a very filled and Blessed one, I think i have done you proud, hehehe. |
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Disclaimer: I VenusFlyTrap post under one moniker only. If the author of a post doesn't say "VenusFlyTrap", it isn't me. |
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spnshacres
Advanced Member
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| 21 Jul 2007 06:05 AM |
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Posted By nicodemus on 07/21/2007 6:54 PM Well For one thing the girls were not shot execution style and no Tracy was not alieve at 8 or 9 am.one was killed around midnight, the other approx 3 hours later however she could have lived long enough to pump blood and fluids to the small place where they were leaking,
As for the girls J>B> was a little more promicious and Tracy was aVirgin planning to start doing missionary work after school.
But all that aside my question has always been what could 2 young girls have done, seen ,or known to be brutally murdered like this?
Here is my question.. One was alive for approx. 3 hours after the first was killed. Could it be she was alive but hurt bad or was it her heart pumping.. Are maybe did the killer keep them alive for some odd reason or reasons? Just a question. |
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VenusFlyTrap
Senior Member
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| 21 Jul 2007 06:01 AM |
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Posted By nicodemus on 07/21/2007 6:54 PM .....snip.... my question has always been what could 2 young girls have done, seen ,or known to be brutally murdered like this?
Any ideas?
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Disclaimer: I VenusFlyTrap post under one moniker only. If the author of a post doesn't say "VenusFlyTrap", it isn't me. |
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nicodemus
Advanced Member
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| 21 Jul 2007 05:54 AM |
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Well For one thing the girls were not shot execution style and no Tracy was not alieve at 8 or 9 am.one was killed around midnight, the other approx 3 hours later however she could have lived long enough to pump blood and fluids to the small place where they were leaking,
As for the girls J>B> was a little more promicious and Tracy was aVirgin planning to start doing missionary work after school.
But all that aside my question has always been what could 2 young girls have done, seen ,or known to be brutally murdered like this?
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spnshacres
Advanced Member
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| 21 Jul 2007 05:06 AM |
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| Well i try to be as honest as i can.. I have nothing what so ever to hide. Well yes i do.. I hide my shame that i did not get to see my father the day he passed away.. But other than that. Im all good.. Cause i know when i meet my maker GOD ALMIGHTY. I have to answer to no one persons sin's except my own. So ill say this.. If the person or person's that killed these girls.. Make it through there pain and agony of keeping closure from the girls parents. When they meet there maker it will be a dreadful Day for them.. |
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VenusFlyTrap
Senior Member
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| 21 Jul 2007 02:25 AM |
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| Thank you spnsh. I admire your honesty and your courage to be honest about having another name.
Unfortunately honesty isn't something some folks can comprehend and they must accuse others of what they are guilty of. I call them cowards myself! Deleting your other name deprives your friend of a posting name and I wouldn't want you to do that. I am glad you got your old name back, though. I cannot make certain others want to see anything beyond what they NEED things to appear to them.... I can say I refuse to live in such a tangled web and have no need to lie or be another personality but there are some with such a need and they dangle in their tangled web of lies and deceit trying to convince themselves it's normal and everyone else does it too but defeating their purpose with paranoia and a denial to the FACT that it isn't normal and everyone else does NOT do it!
Posted By spnshacres on 07/21/2007 11:33 AM Sorry Venus.. I explained who echogirl was.. I will not be using it anymore so now you will get blamed for making it vanish.. Its your fault i tell ya. That poor echogirl is going away.. be ashame.. j/k hahah Hope your having a nice day
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Disclaimer: I VenusFlyTrap post under one moniker only. If the author of a post doesn't say "VenusFlyTrap", it isn't me. |
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Smokey
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| 21 Jul 2007 02:19 AM |
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Another idle observation.
Every version I have ever heard about this story has J.B. as having a "hidden life" of some sort. She basically had enemies (though noone can decide on the same 2 sets of enemies). The one constant is that Tracy was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. I have yet to hear a story that has her implicated in any of the B/S that J.B. is always in. That being said I wonder why she was riding with J. B. that night |
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Smokey
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| 21 Jul 2007 02:14 AM |
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Posted By Veritas on 07/20/2007 10:32 PM JB and Tracie were shot in the head, not in the heart. Their hearts continued to pump for quite some time, most likely, since the human heart has something called "automaticity". It will work on its own, without input from the vagus nerve / brain. If it were not so, heart transplants wouldn't be possible. The general consensus is that Tracie was shot inside the trunk, so it's altogether reasonable that her heart pumped quite a bit of blood into the trunk before she died.
Wasn't their a rumor going around that according to the Coroners reports, one of the girls did not die until about 9 or 10 that morning. Ozark found the car around 7:30 to 8:00. That meant that one of them was tecnically still alive when the car was found. She probably would of been brain dead, but some people have recovered from such injuries. Unfortunately by the time Ozark looked in the trunk, it was after 10:00.
I wonder if there is any truth to this rumor. I remember hearing it, but I do not remember where. |
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Veritas
Veteran Member
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| 21 Jul 2007 12:50 AM |
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| Smokey, I agree. Your post was not the S-S-D-D attack on the messenger, rather than the message. Not sure where the "mean" came from. And you're right, I did post that web site, among others, and I believe a lot of what they claim. Their Doctrinal Statement is a wealth of information for the beginner or the teacher. Just because something isn't politically correct or in the vogue doesn't mean that it's not TRUE. Who was it that was almost burned at the stake because of his Sun-centered theory of the universe? Galileo? Copernicus? I'm too sleepy to look it up, but u get the idea... |
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peanut804
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| 21 Jul 2007 12:47 AM |
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Then of course there is your E-mail I have admitting to killing a Black Male " CRACK HEAD " as you describe him in Virginia by putting him under your truck and running over his head? WHAT!!!!!!!!! |
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Smokey
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| 21 Jul 2007 12:42 AM |
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Posted By Veritas on 07/21/2007 1:36 AM I don't believe he killed the girls. I even gave money toward his bail, thru his sister. But what if, on some level, he WASN'T lieing? What if he was actually there with this guy that he described and named, and what if he actually witnessed the murders? It's not altogether out of the realm of possibility that he went to the cops and tried to tell his story without implicating the one who actually did the shooting. At least, that's what I have believed since Jan/Feb of 2000.....I honestly believe that, if he and his family were offered witness protection / relocation, he would sing like a bird on the first day of spring...
If you are right then Ozark ruined their best and only witness. After the treatment he got I doubt he would even speak to the Ozark P.D., much less help them in any way. |
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devils advocate
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| 21 Jul 2007 12:41 AM |
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| Well the only problem with witness protection thing is the fact Alabama dosen't have an accessory clause. If you were present while a crime is commited you will be charged with that crime. That way the police dept solved the crime and therfore they get the reward money. |
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Veritas
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| 21 Jul 2007 12:36 AM |
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| I don't believe he killed the girls. I even gave money toward his bail, thru his sister. But what if, on some level, he WASN'T lieing? What if he was actually there with this guy that he described and named, and what if he actually witnessed the murders? It's not altogether out of the realm of possibility that he went to the cops and tried to tell his story without implicating the one who actually did the shooting. At least, that's what I have believed since Jan/Feb of 2000.....I honestly believe that, if he and his family were offered witness protection / relocation, he would sing like a bird on the first day of spring... |
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Smokey
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| 21 Jul 2007 12:35 AM |
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I am not being mean and I am not attacking your religion but Veritas I have had a chance to read thru some of the other posts. I think the reason they are questioning you is because of what is in the website you posted earlier in another thread.
your website - http://www.kingidentity.com/
opening statement
"Kingdom Identity Ministries is a Politically Incorrect Christian Identity outreach ministry to God's chosen race (true Israel, the White, European peoples). "
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Veritas
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| 21 Jul 2007 12:29 AM |
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| hahaha...neet-whoop? How'd you know???? And ixnay on the third moon of mars stuff...the Illuminati might read ur post!!! Seriously, how else can you make the point that somebody might have been outraged by seeing JB hugging a black boy in Headland? The year was 1999, but still, there are LOTS of people who still have very strong feelings about such things. My original thought was that it was connected. I tried to be as politically correct as possible. |
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Smokey
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| 21 Jul 2007 12:28 AM |
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Posted By Veritas on 07/20/2007 10:44 PM smokey, not meaning to argue with you, but to offer something I heard....about the time of the murders, it was rumoured that Barrentine commented to one of his sisters..."Be careful. We wouldn't want you to wind up like those girls, rolled up in a blanket..." Now, I don't know how true that was. It was only a rumour, and I've NEVER heard it repeated on here or during any interview with PD. However, it was one of the many rumours making the rounds back the, and would have explained the lack of blood on the outside of the car. Do I believe it? Not really. I saw a picture which was printed in the newspaper, and you could see just the hint of a white girl's arm in the picture of the open trunk. That would pretty much throw out the idea of "rolled up in a blanket".
No arguement here. I am just kicking out what I know and what I have heard that I consider plausible they fed Barrentine alot of the "facts" and walked him around in such a way that he fed them back to the investigators. He had no clue what he was saying. At one point they asked him which story they were susposed to believe (he gave about 10 different versions of what susposedly happened that night).
I do not want to sound harsh when I say this, but going in and lying to the police like he did, their is no way he could walk out of there without people thinking he knew something. He will be considered a suspect as long as this case remains unsolved. It is just a result of his actions |
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devils advocate
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| 21 Jul 2007 12:28 AM |
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| actually there is one or two other shots that can stop the heart and one of them would be to hit the medulla oblongata. You know the nerve center of the brain. That pretty much shuts everything down within seconds. Not long enough to make a large puddle. |
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nicodemus
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| 21 Jul 2007 12:26 AM |
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For you Veritas,
Do You Not remember how you wrote the letter to your landlady about not being able to pay your rent on time, because you had to buy a car ( a forigien car because nobody would trust a divorced white man for the kind of car yo wanted)
And did it not reassure here your rent would be paid ontime from then on. Nex shortly after that did you not move in with your brother and his wife close to where Barrientines sister lived?
Also tell me you know so much about these murders how close together were they killed, and exactly were were the wounds?
You also explained your writing as being established fact, Is it not als an established fact one of your tapes " THE DON'T BE AFRAID BRIGADE " was in the tape deck? I say yours because I am told you purchased it at a christian store in Troy.
Then of course there is your E-mail I have admitting to killing a Black Male " CRACK HEAD " as you describe him in Virginia by putting him under your truck and running over his head? |
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devils advocate
Veteran Member
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| 21 Jul 2007 12:23 AM |
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| I believe the reason that religion came into play was because of the black boy comment. I dont care if you worship neet-whoop the god of the third moon of mars. I just think it's interesting that you feel attacked. |
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Veritas
Veteran Member
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| 21 Jul 2007 12:23 AM |
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| haha! Devil, you misunderstand me. Someday I've gotta learn how to quote what I'm replying to in my posts. Nobody said they were shot in the heart, but only a heart shot would stop the flow of blood pretty much as soon as they died. Multiple personalities was directed at me. Somebody thinks you and I are the same person. The Einstein thing was part of the fuss between me and echogirl...But in all seriousness, your questions are well taken. It's natural for us to "bow up" when somebody questions our pet theories, but I'm also a firm believer that, if our theories don't stand up to a few hard questions, they aren't right... |
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Veritas
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| 21 Jul 2007 12:12 AM |
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| Ok, let's try it this way. I'm not going to answer your questions about religion in here. You want to know who and what I am? Read the book. It won't hurt you. I WILL NOT let this discussion be derailed and carried off into some never-never-land of questions about my religious beliefs. Doesn't matter if I'm a satanist or islamic or buddhist or waiting for ET to save us all. I asked some questions, and two people seem DETERMINED to change the subject. A reasonable person would ask WHY??? |
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devils advocate
Veteran Member
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| 20 Jul 2007 11:38 AM |
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| Ok here's the deal I said a tow truck not a rollback. a rollback would have not have left the scrapes in the bottom of the trunk pan that were found. It could have even been a tow dollie. Either one of which would elevate the front of the car and with the weight of two dead bodies in the trunk would cause it to "bottom out" and scrape up the trunk pan. And to answer the question raised about what it takes to solve a crime, it takes three things. 1 Compitent investigators, 2 an unmolested crime scene, and 3 a willingness to solve said crime. Oh and yes there was blood found on the ground under the car. But dead people don't bleed. Anybody who watches csi knows that. |
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Wrascal
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| 20 Jul 2007 11:35 AM |
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Please let me repeat myself......
I feel that we need to ENCOURAGE people to speak up about their suspicions/little details that they may have/know. Even if it proves to be unfounded, it may turn up some other helpful info.
I also feel we should DISCOURAGE those who would belittle, condemn, intimidate or otherwise pooh-pooh them from speaking out. That person may have the unknown answer, and should be listened too.
If we discourage each other, we'll also discourage the person who may have the clue. Arguing/disagreements can be via email. The goal is to try and find any missing/helpful clues.
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VenusFlyTrap
Senior Member
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| 20 Jul 2007 11:32 AM |
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Thank you Advocate for caring enough to keep things dumbed down for me. I appreciate your effort and trouble. Thank you!!!!
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Disclaimer: I VenusFlyTrap post under one moniker only. If the author of a post doesn't say "VenusFlyTrap", it isn't me. |
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devils advocate
Veteran Member
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| 20 Jul 2007 11:24 AM |
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| ok venus aparently you can't follow a trail of bread crumbs so I will spoon feed this much to you. When you tow a car it lifts the front and that makes the rear closer to the ground. And if you add weight from two bodies in the trunk that puts it even closer to the ground. So therfore when you hit a bump it would scrape the rear of the trunk pan. And for the dead people don't bleed comment if there was blood under the car when they found it that means that one of the girls was still alive ( meaning heart beating and pumping blood out of the head wound) when the car was dumped. I will keep in mind that from now on I have to speak at a fifth grade level. sorry for talking over your head. |
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Veritas
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| 20 Jul 2007 10:58 AM |
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| This is getting to be interesting! I've brought up some undeniable facts, such as Barrentine knowing details he couldn't have been able to know and the police freezing the reward process at a ridiculously low level, and now I'm being attacked on here....a reasonable person would have to ask, WHAT HAVE I SAID THAT GOT THEM SO UPSET? COULD IT BE THAT MY QUESTIONS ARE HITTING TOO CLOSE TO HOME? |
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spnshacres
Advanced Member
Posts:146
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| 20 Jul 2007 10:57 AM |
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| What i would like to know..This is not a attack in anyway.. Its a simple question about your religion..Your religion proclaims that the white race is the pure race.. Where in the Bible does it say this? I am curiouse to know. Because if i rememebr correctly the bible said all man kind is his children.. So woudl that single out a certain race? Also ill try to find it in the bible if im wrong my apology in advance, |
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Veritas
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| 20 Jul 2007 10:50 AM |
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| Dangggg...every time I scroll up, I see something else! hahah! Ok, to answer your question, I am a reader. My mind operates on detailed facts. I don't have it in me to converse in these little 4 or 5 word sentences. If it weren't for having totally British ancestry, I'd swear I'm part German! Yes, I wrote a letter to the ABI, which was shared with the defense team, in which I said that JB was seen hugging an african boy (that's a safe way to phrase it) under the bright lights of the gas station in Headland. ONCE AGAIN, I'd like for you to tell me how you knew the contents of that letter.... |
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VenusFlyTrap
Senior Member
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| 20 Jul 2007 10:49 AM |
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| Smokey,
I appreciate your taking the time to offer explanations that do make sense and are well typed out. Thank you! |
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Disclaimer: I VenusFlyTrap post under one moniker only. If the author of a post doesn't say "VenusFlyTrap", it isn't me. |
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Veritas
Veteran Member
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| 20 Jul 2007 10:46 AM |
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| Hey, Nicodemus, you've attacked ME, and you've attacked my friendship with JB, but I notice you haven't attacked any of the postulations that I've made about this case. It seems as though you're DETERMINED to throw suspicion on me, almost as though you want to distract attention from someone else....my question is, what are you so AFRAID of, that you'd attack me, personally? |
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Smokey
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| 20 Jul 2007 10:41 AM |
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Posted By Veritas on 07/19/2007 11:09 AM hahahah! My ex g/f, who had a huge case of rage against JB, is left handed. So is "you know who", I believe. But then again, I've heard that the girls' heads were toward the passenger side of the car. The mazda 929 doesn't have a huge trunk, and the last time I looked in JB's trunk, it was FULL of stuff...clothes, make-up bags, you name it. I teased her endlessly about it. If she were to have a flat, she'd have to pile her undies beside the road in plain view to get the tire out!!! Perhaps the killer had to angle the gun from the middle of the trunk, under the trunk edge, to shoot them in the head. And, seems like I remember hearing that JB was shot outside the trunk. I am gona throw my 2 cents in this. for what it is worth
There was no blood found on the body of the car except what had run out of the trunk. If they were shot anywhere but outside the trunk getting the bodies into the trunk would of been quite messy and the driver wouls have left some in the drivers seat area. Even if the car was washed phorensics could still have pulled traces of blood with dye. That may have been a theory early on but it is not really supportable with what I have been told by many involved.
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Smokey
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| 20 Jul 2007 10:35 AM |
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Posted By cmom on 07/19/2007 5:23 PM Your Right Smokey,so many theories on this horrible crime.Theres someone out there that knows something.Smokey,you dont think the man arrested knows anything? I dont think he did this horrible crime,but didnt he know alot of things? You are leaning on a close friend,boyfriend,or family member of one of the girls.Has any of these ppl been checked out I wonder.
They questioned Johnny for over 3 hrs feeding him bits and pieces about the crime and letting him feed it back to them until they all but had him. Of course Johnny was stupid, He thought he could go tell the cops a lie and get the reward money. What he failed to realise is when you go to claim that money, they look at you as a possible suspect. He instantly became suspect number 1 because if you were there, you must have been an acomplice right?? He gave the cops probably 10 different stories altering it as he was questioned in more details by the cops.
As for my opinions here goes, these are only my opinions based on what I know, at best they are pure speculation
As for family, I know they looked closely at J.B's mother. DHR had recently removed J.B. from her mothers care (fact). They susposedly had gotten into a fight over her mothers boyfriend. Rumor was that J.B.'s mother caught her daughter sleeping with him and threatened to kill her. I know that Cheryl filed a lawsuit trying to sue DHR over her daughters death but it was withdrawn because she was considered a suspect.
The other story I have heard from some outside Ozark that worked on the case is that J.B. was messing with an Ozark Cop. She was susposedly trying to blackmale him out of some money and had threatened to tell his wife. This person also said that Ozark had screwed up the scene where the car was found so badly that he doubt it could ever be solved. He personally "off the record" believed it was deliberate.
Either one of these would explain why no foreign DNA was found. One would expect to find her mothers DNA in the car, and if it was a cop and he was on the scene, as poorly as the crime scene was controled you would expect to find his prints and DNA also. |
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Veritas
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| 20 Jul 2007 10:09 AM |
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| Fair questions. And I'll give you fair answers. I don't have anything to hide. And yes, I WAS a person of interest. Never denied it. First, how would YOU, of all people, know anything about police communications records? You're not a cop. Did you get all that info from the defense attorney? I don't really remember that call, but I do know that I had the locks changed once, after an argument with my ex g/f. I didn't call the police to have it done, tho. hahah! That would be as stupid as Barrentine going to video warehouse to get a video of the truck at the gas station!!! JB and I were friends. We met thru my ex g/f. The first time I ever saw JB was when she was 15, and we stopped by her home to see how she was. Her mom was in Panama City, and JB was left in charge of the younger sisters, driving them to dance and where-ever else they might need to go. Occasionally she would stop by with my g/f's daughter, and in time, she started stopping by alone. She was having problems with her mom AND HER FOSTER PARENT, and needed someone to talk with. I listened. I never ONCE bragged about having an affair with JB, and in fact, I challenged the FBI to find ONE BIT OF DNA evidence from me in JB's clothing. (Being sure of yourself when you're tellng the TRUTH is nice.) I moved out at the end of my lease. Purely coincidental, and by the way, it was before JB was killed. And it is an established fact that JB DID hug a black boy in Headland at a gas station on the night that she died. At first, it was my opinion, based on the lack of robbery or rape, that she had been killed by white supremacists because of that hug. You know that very well, because you have the letter that I sent to the ABI. Likewise, I believe I repeated that theory to you when you started emailing me about that time. Didn't you use the email address of "realbiker01@wmconnect.com at the time? Of course, when Barrentine fingered a big, tattooed man as the actual killer, all my previous theories were dropped in favor of theories based on FACTS. |
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Veritas
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| 20 Jul 2007 09:44 AM |
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| smokey, not meaning to argue with you, but to offer something I heard....about the time of the murders, it was rumoured that Barrentine commented to one of his sisters..."Be careful. We wouldn't want you to wind up like those girls, rolled up in a blanket..." Now, I don't know how true that was. It was only a rumour, and I've NEVER heard it repeated on here or during any interview with PD. However, it was one of the many rumours making the rounds back the, and would have explained the lack of blood on the outside of the car. Do I believe it? Not really. I saw a picture which was printed in the newspaper, and you could see just the hint of a white girl's arm in the picture of the open trunk. That would pretty much throw out the idea of "rolled up in a blanket". |
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VenusFlyTrap
Senior Member
Posts:710
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| 20 Jul 2007 09:41 AM |
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Advocate I did read what you typed and responded to it obviously I did not understand what you typed or I wouldn't have responded with questions. You seem to take issue with the bleeding part of my post.... You said "Oh and yes there was blood found on the ground under the car. But dead people don't bleed. Anybody who watches csi knows that." I said "If the dead don't bleed..... Why do hunters bleed their kill? Or does the rule of bleeding only apply to people? After a body has had time to set up the blood leaves the extremities and pools in the part of the body that has the most gravity force or is pointing downward BUT when injured a body will bleed out and keep bleeding until the blood pools elsewhere or bleeds out which could also be where gravity and the injury are together. A pulse makes you spurt blood through a wound not having a pulse makes you drain blood through a wound. How do you know the girls heads weren't in a downward position with the body?" Then you said "Any living creature quits bleeding when it dies but there is this really neat thing called gravity and when you hang a dead animal by it's hind legs and slit it's throat it bleeds out pretty well. The girls heads were not in a position where gravity would take effect."
My reply is I am glad to see you are comprehending a little about what CSI didn't teach you. However, a dead anything with blood and an open wound does bleed out UNTIL the blood settles in the point of gravity. IF the wound and the point of gravity are the same then whatever will bleed completely out. A question you must have previously overlooked was "How do you know the girls heads weren't in a downward position with the body?" I didn't ask if you knew I asked how do you know. I also replied to your saying "Ok here's the deal I said a tow truck not a rollback. a rollback would have not have left the scrapes in the bottom of the trunk pan that were found." with "Couldn't the car had once been down a dirt road and gotten stuck and caused scrapes under the car? Was the car without shocks or did it have one of those kits that lowers the body down close to the ground?" You replied back with "ok venus if your a reader how about you read what I write before you respond. There were scrapes on the trunk pan that would suggest that the car was towed with the front elevated." I am sorry but I am unable to read or comprehend your answer to my question as I don't see anything typed in regard to what I typed..... So you believe there was another person.... Yesterday you spoke of facts.... You have yet to prove your facts or show you speak the truth.... As for steering the car with a rope.... As a teenager I made many trips to the junkyard in Troy to sell a junk car for movie money.... Depending on the car, someone would steer the car with the rope tied to it BUT if we could get the car close enough to the pulling car we didn't need someone to steer it and allowed me to make the trip all by myself.... Damage to the front end would depend on where you tied the rope.
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Disclaimer: I VenusFlyTrap post under one moniker only. If the author of a post doesn't say "VenusFlyTrap", it isn't me. |
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Veritas
Veteran Member
Posts:435
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| 20 Jul 2007 09:32 AM |
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| JB and Tracie were shot in the head, not in the heart. Their hearts continued to pump for quite some time, most likely, since the human heart has something called "automaticity". It will work on its own, without input from the vagus nerve / brain. If it were not so, heart transplants wouldn't be possible. The general consensus is that Tracie was shot inside the trunk, so it's altogether reasonable that her heart pumped quite a bit of blood into the trunk before she died. |
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nicodemus
Advanced Member
Posts:62
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| 20 Jul 2007 09:01 AM |
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ask yourself why would you use such a descritive term as " She was seen hugging an african boy beneath the bright lights of a service station on hwy. 431 in Headland"
Ask any journalist they will tell unless you witnessed it you would not describe it with such detail. |
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nicodemus
Advanced Member
Posts:62
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| 20 Jul 2007 08:57 AM |
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| veritas started this and we will drag him into the light |
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nicodemus
Advanced Member
Posts:62
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| 20 Jul 2007 08:42 AM |
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| If this case interests you read a book the one I have in mind is " AN HOUR TO KILL" a true story with amazing similarities |
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nicodemus
Advanced Member
Posts:62
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| 20 Jul 2007 08:39 AM |
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| I found it really interesting that Ozark P.D. did not discover the bodies because they never searched the car, after finding it there with doors locked, windows on the drivers side down and personal property such as purses and dl's in the car. |
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devils advocate
Veteran Member
Posts:346
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| 20 Jul 2007 08:34 AM |
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| ok venus if your a reader how about you read what I write before you respond. There were scrapes on the trunk pan that would suggest that the car was towed with the front elevated. How much weight?Well how much do two dead girls weigh about 200lbs maybe? Any living creature quits bleeding when it dies but there is this really neat thing called gravity and when you hang a dead animal by it's hind legs and slit it's throat it bleeds out pretty well. The girls heads were not in a position where gravity would take effect.A rope tied to the front of the car would have caused visible damage and there would have had to have been a second person to steer the car. So that would kill the idea of it being only one person huh? |
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cmom
Senior Member
Posts:1340
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| 20 Jul 2007 08:33 AM |
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| Hello Devil,
Well,you got the answeres correct on solving the crime.As for the blood being there,well,depends how long the victim was deceased.I dont watch csi,but what Venus just said makes alot of sense.
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peanut804
Advanced Member
Posts:168
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| 20 Jul 2007 08:22 AM |
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| nicodemus-------I agree totally. Wrascal sounds like either the real thing or a wanna be. If he is the real thing--he'll end up talking just enough to get the kind of attention that is deserved. |
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spnshacres
Advanced Member
Posts:146
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| 20 Jul 2007 08:01 AM |
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| woohoo got my name back |
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VenusFlyTrap
Senior Member
Posts:710
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| 20 Jul 2007 07:58 AM |
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| Advocate, would you be more specific?
How much weight would bottom out the rear end of a car?
Why wouldn't the shocks or frame support the weight of two girls?
Speculating that the car was towed.... It couldn't have been a rollback, a rope or tongue tied to the bumper or hitch of another car. Why does it have to be something that would drag the rear of the car? make sparks and noise? Couldn't the car had once been down a dirt road and gotten stuck and caused scrapes under the car?
Was the car without shocks or did it have one of those kits that lowers the body down close to the ground?
If the dead don't bleed..... Why do hunters bleed their kill? Or does the rule of bleeding only apply to people?
After a body has had time to set up the blood leaves the extremities and pools in the part of the body that has the most gravity force or is pointing downward BUT when injured a body will bleed out and keep bleeding until the blood pools elsewhere or bleeds out which could also be where gravity and the injury are together. A pulse makes you spurt blood through a wound not having a pulse makes you drain blood through a wound.
How do you know the girls heads weren't in a downward position with the body?
I have watched from start to finish about 2 episodes of CSI.... I am more of a reader.
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Disclaimer: I VenusFlyTrap post under one moniker only. If the author of a post doesn't say "VenusFlyTrap", it isn't me. |
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echogirl
New Member
Posts:16
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| 20 Jul 2007 07:41 AM |
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| Ok here is my confession.. I am spnshacres. I made this log in name where me and a freiend can share it.. but she dont use it so i do.. the reason i do not use spnshacres on here is.. when they did the upgrade i have not been able to log in using that name so we made this account it is the one i use now.. so if a admin wnats to give me my name back i will thank you very much |
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echogirl
New Member
Posts:16
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| 20 Jul 2007 07:36 AM |
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| Do i got to confess who i am.. I dont mind and i will explain why |
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southernbama
Veteran Member
Posts:385
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| 20 Jul 2007 07:31 AM |
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| And are we dealing with a multiple personality disorder as well? |
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Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. Ephesians 6:11-12 |
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southernbama
Veteran Member
Posts:385
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| 20 Jul 2007 07:25 AM |
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| Some of us believe that veritas is devil's advocate..................and who are all these new screen names? |
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Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. Ephesians 6:11-12 |
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cmom
Senior Member
Posts:1340
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| 20 Jul 2007 07:14 AM |
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| nicodemus,who was the post about,mean who were you addressing?For some unknown reason,my post are coing into the wrong plave,sorry bout that |
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echogirl
New Member
Posts:16
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| 20 Jul 2007 07:12 AM |
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| I like nicodemus.. He is a man of honesty and straight forward. I think he tell it like it is. I think the same as you do.. I think VEritas is a supsect in my eyes. Also, I think he has alot to hide and no one will ever know unless he is investigated well.. But im sure Veritas will log on soon ans read the post's then he will point his finger at you as he did myself and say you have something to hide and that you shoudl be checked out. |
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cmom
Senior Member
Posts:1340
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| 20 Jul 2007 07:10 AM |
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| that statement was ment for devil,the statement above |
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nicodemus
Advanced Member
Posts:62
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| 20 Jul 2007 04:58 AM |
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Since you started this thread why not tell the good folks exactly haow close you were with J.B. How you allowed her and her friends to use your apartment while you were out of town, and oh! Yes yor brags about having had an affair with her, I believe you even stated she would come to your apt. all hours of the night. Also wasn't your Alibi that you were in another town brushing hair that night? ( KINKY FOR A TRUCK DRIVE HUH!)
Then we can discuss the call you made to Dothan P.D. Communication center a few weeks prior to this wasn't it to the effect that you had lost your keys and was afraid someone might get into your apt. and plant something. I guess my question is if you rent from an apartment complex they have a mgr. maintence man, plus you had a girlfriend with a key, why would you not call them instead of the p.d. to get your locks changed and have someone there that you trust to watch your place for you. I mean it seems to me a call like that would certainly make police officers wonder what you might have in your apt.
And Why did you move out shortly after that?
Then there is the big question did you not state in a letter that J.B. hugged an african boy beneath the bright lights of a service station in headland?
Quiet Frankly you sound like a person of interest to me! |
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nicodemus
Advanced Member
Posts:62
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| 20 Jul 2007 04:54 AM |
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Since you started this thread why not tell the good folks exactly haow close you were with J.B. How you allowed her and her friends to use your apartment while you were out of town, and oh! Yes yor brags about having had an affair with her, I believe you even stated she would come to your apt. all hours of the night. Also wasn't your Alibi that you were in another town brushing hair that night? ( KINKY FOR A TRUCK DRIVE HUH!)
Then we can discuss the call you made to Dothan P.D. Communication center a few weeks prior to this wasn't it to the effect that you had lost your keys and was afraid someone might get into your apt. and plant something. I guess my question is if you rent from an apartment complex they have a mgr. maintence man, plus you had a girlfriend with a key, why would you not call them instead of the p.d. to get your locks changed and have someone there that you trust to watch your place for you. I mean it seems to me a call like that would certainly make police officers wonder what you might have in your apt.
And Why did you move out shortly after that?
Then there is the big question did you not state in a letter that J.B. hugged an african boy beneath the bright lights of a service station in headland?
Quiet Frankly you sound like a person of interest to me! |
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nicodemus
Advanced Member
Posts:62
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| 20 Jul 2007 04:29 AM |
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The book is non fiction, it takes place in S. Carolina and starts with what else one girl picks her friend up at the mall at approx. 9:00 PM and she works at belks.
Read the book it will enlighten you to think some other things. |
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cmom
Senior Member
Posts:1340
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| 20 Jul 2007 02:59 AM |
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| Your not talking over our heads,not at all,maybe we are talking over yours. |
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cmom
Senior Member
Posts:1340
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| 20 Jul 2007 02:53 AM |
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| nicodemus,I put my reply on the wrong page,but would love to read your book,also I agree,as why JBs car just sat there locked,trunk not opened right then..I guess maybe OPD just didnt think that two young girls could be inside.. |
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Carolyn_S
Senior Member
Posts:1363
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| 20 Jul 2007 02:44 AM |
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vft, i guess what i am getting at is #1- thats a pretty questionable area and #2- i subscribe to the theory that the girls were killed elsewhere and then left on herring to be discovered. (no basis except that the trigger person would be afraid that the shots would be heard by the very ones you mentioned. i couldn't hear the morman tabernacle choir singing outside my bedroom window in the summer- i have fans whirring!! loudly..... |
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~~Some days it just doesn't seem worth the effort to gnaw through the straps...~~
_____________________________________
**Seether Fan**
Shaun Morgan is my GASOLINE |
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cmom
Senior Member
Posts:1340
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| 20 Jul 2007 02:38 AM |
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| I agree nicodemus,cant understand that at all.
I would like very much to read your book,is it fiction,or non? |
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VenusFlyTrap
Senior Member
Posts:710
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| 20 Jul 2007 01:28 AM |
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| I don't know who owns the property on that end of Herring, I know there used to be a house on the lot JB and Tracie were found on, years ago. Across the street from that lot, on Herring, is land and people used to go back in there and shoot guns. At the top of the hill on Herring there is a driveway of sorts and there used to be a gate.... My Aunt lived in the little white house right next to that gate in the early 1990's. People would go back in there where the gate is and gunshots would ring loud as ever through those woods.
You could hear the gunshots over at Hillcrest Church, by the ballpark and down James St. They didn't shoot them at night when all was still and quiet but in the day when all was busy and air conditioners were running.
I don't think anyone would get up and go investigate but I am positive people would have told the police they heard what they thought were gunshots or firecrackers after 11:30 at night.
When i was little I used to play back on Herring and I was afraid to go into the woods for fear of being shot because guns were going off quite a bit around there and we were told snakes, the bobo and wolves were waiting to eat us, the gunshots kind of aided in confirming those stories, oh someone just killed a snake, I bet, oh but it could have been the bobo or a wolf.... I think people shot possum and snakes but as I child the concept of the bobo being in those woods was terribly frightening.
When there are ball games taking place you can sit on any porch on that end of Herring and hear the bat make contact with the ball....
Which is why I don't think the girls were shot there. I believe someone would have heard something, especially the two houses on James going down the hill from Herring. And the two houses on top of the hill on Herring. Plus the elderly don't sleep soundly and the apartments on Herring, as kids we called "The old folks home" someone would have been awake and possibly heard something. The noises over there echo loudly! |
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Disclaimer: I VenusFlyTrap post under one moniker only. If the author of a post doesn't say "VenusFlyTrap", it isn't me. |
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Carolyn_S
Senior Member
Posts:1363
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| 20 Jul 2007 01:02 AM |
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DAMN! i can't turn my back on y'all for a couple of days without more posts than i've seen in a year!
david, i didn't know you were questioned (why would i?) but thanks for offering up the info. its interesting that some of LE weren't DNA'd when many other people were checked out- esp in light of the BF policeman theory.....
ok i guess anythings possible but i think its reaching to see a guy with a tow truck hauling around a car with a couple of dead girls....
i live close to herring av.......... let me assure you that it is DAMN DARK, and even tho its in the middle of town its one isolated stretch of road. in that particular part of town i don't see anybody hopping out during the night to investigate the sound of gunshots which could be confused with fireworks, cars backfiring, and such. lets remember that July 31-Aug 1 is HOT weather. i bet i am not the only one who has a/c and fans running. i have window ac's and they are loud; i can almost assure you that many other houses close to that area have the window a/c's and it obliterates a lot of noise.
as smokey stated i go with the theory that whoever did this was close and any DNA would be commonly found- ie "explainable"~~~~~~~~ |
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~~Some days it just doesn't seem worth the effort to gnaw through the straps...~~
_____________________________________
**Seether Fan**
Shaun Morgan is my GASOLINE |
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Smokey
Advanced Member
Posts:62
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| 20 Jul 2007 12:54 AM |
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I did a search and found this on a legal website.
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scrip...45&invol=2
It shows that the state had taken custody of J.B., if nothing else.
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Rel: 5/17/02 Cheryl Burgoon v. Ala. State Dept. of Human Resources
Notice: This opinion is subject to formal revision before publication in the advance sheets of Southern Reporter. Readers are requested to notify the Reporter of Decisions, Alabama Appellate Courts, 300 Dexter Avenue, Montgomery, Alabama 36104-3741 ((334) 242-4621), of any typographical or other errors, in order that corrections may be made before the opinion is printed in Southern Reporter.
SUPREME COURT OF ALABAMA
OCTOBER TERM, 2001-2002
_________________________
1010345
_________________________
Cheryl Burgoon, individually and as administratrix of the estate of J.B. Beasley, deceased
v.
Alabama State Department of Human Resources et al.
Appeal from Houston Circuit Court
(CV-2001-537)
WOODALL, Justice.
Cheryl Burgoon, individually and as administratrix of the estate of her daughter, J.B. Beasley, deceased, appeals from a judgment dismissing her complaint against, among others, the Alabama State Department of Human Resources and the Houston County Department of Human Resources (hereinafter referred to collectively as "DHR"). We affirm in part, reverse in part, and remand.
According to the undisputed facts, 17-year-old J.B. Beasley was murdered. Her body was discovered locked in the trunk of her automobile; she had suffered a gunshot wound to the head. At the time of the murder, Beasley was in the legal custody of the Houston County Department of Human Resources.
On July 31, 2001, Burgoon commenced a wrongful-death action in the Houston Circuit Court against DHR and certain individuals, among whom were employees of DHR. The complaint alleged, among other things, that certain individuals had failed to supervise Beasley. It averred that "none of the Defendants can account for J.B. Beasley's whereabouts on the night of her death," and that the homicide occurred "[a]s a direct and proximate result of [the] failure to ... supervise." The complaint included claims for damages against DHR and against its employees in their individual and official capacities.
On August 8, 2001, one of the individual defendants moved to disqualify Burgoon's attorney, on the ground that the attorney would become a material witness in the case. On August 27, 2001, the trial court entered on the case-action-summary sheet an order scheduling a hearing on October 2, 2001, for "[a]ll pending motions." Subsequently, the defendants filed motions for dismissal. In particular, the individual defendants filed motions to dismiss pursuant to Ala. R. Civ. P. 12(b)(6) on August 30, 2001, and August 31, 2001. On September 5, 2001, DHR and one of its employees filed a joint "Motion to Dismiss Pursuant to [Ala]. R. Civ. P. 12, or in the Alternative, Motion for Summary Judgment Pursuant to [Ala]. R. Civ. P. 56." Accompanying the latter motion was the employee's affidavit. On September 21, 2001, that is, 11 days before the scheduled hearing, the trial court entered the following order on the case-action-summary sheet: "Motions to dismiss as to all defendants are hereby granted." From that judgment, Burgoon appealed.
Burgoon contends that the trial court erred in granting the defendants' motions to dismiss without a hearing. She relies on Ala. R. Civ. P. 78, which states, in pertinent part:
"To expedite further its business, unless there is a request for oral hearing, the court may enter an order denying a motion to dismiss without oral hearing. Unless the court orders otherwise, an order granting a motion to dismiss shall be deemed to permit an automatic right of amendment of the pleading to which the motion is directed within ten (10) days from service of the order."
(Emphasis added.) Particularly instructive are the "Committee Comments on 1973 Adoption" to Rule 78, which state, in part:
"It is to be noted that the last sentence of the rule prohibits the granting of a Motion Seeking Final Judgment such as a Motion for Summary Judgment without giving the parties an opportunity to be heard orally.
"... In the event the court has any inclination toward the granting of the motion to dismiss, a hearing will continue to be required."
(Emphasis added.)
It is clear that the requirements of Rule 78 differ, depending on whether the trial court contemplates granting, as opposed to denying, a motion for a final judgment. Under the plain language of the rule and the comments to the rule, a trial court may not grant a motion to dismiss without a hearing, although, in some circumstances, it may deny such a motion. Cf. Van Knight v. Smoker, 778 So. 2d 801, 805 (Ala. 2000) (except in "certain limited circumstances," Rule 56(c), Ala. R. Civ. P., entitles the parties to a hearing on a summary-judgment motion).
There is one notable exception to this rule. Under Alabama caselaw, a "circuit court is without jurisdiction to entertain a suit against the State because of [Ala. Const. 1901, § 14]." Aland v. Graham, 287 Ala. 226, 229, 250 So. 2d 677, 678 (1971). "Therefore, it appears that a trial court or an appellate court should, at any stage of the proceedings, dismiss a suit when it becomes convinced that it is a suit against the State and contrary to Sec. 14 of the Constitution." 287 Ala. at 229, 250 So. 2d at 678 (emphasis added).
A suit against a State agency, or against State agents in their official capacities, is a suit against the State. Ex parte Mobile County Dep't of Human Res., [Ms. 1992252, May 25, 2001] ___ So. 2d ___ (Ala. 2001); Ex parte Alabama Dep't of Forensic Sciences, 709 So. 2d 455 (Ala. 1997); Ex parte Franklin County Dep't of Human Res., 674 So. 2d 1277, 1279 (Ala. 1996); Alabama State Docks v. Saxon, 631 So. 2d 943, 946 (Ala. 1994). State agents enjoy absolute immunity from suit in their official capacities. "[A] county department of human resources is considered to be a State agency for purposes of asserting the defense of sovereign immunity." Ex parte Franklin County Dep't of Human Res., 674 So. 2d at 1279. A trial court must dismiss an action against a State agency or against a State agent acting in an official capacity at the earliest opportunity. The trial court did not err in dismissing the claims against DHR and against its employees in their official capacities, because facially these claims were claims against the State.
The DHR employees in their individual capacities, however, enjoy only qualified immunity from suit. Ex parte Tuscaloosa County, 796 So. 2d 1100, 1106 (Ala. 2000). The law of qualified immunity was succinctly restated in Ex parte Cranman, 792 So. 2d 392, 405-06 (Ala. 2000), adopted by a majority of this Court in Ex parte Butts, 775 So. 2d 173 (Ala. 2000). The claims against the individuals in their individual capacities are not subject to the "notable exception" to Rule 78, because such claims are not claims against the State.
The trial court erred, therefore, in granting the motions to dismiss the claims against all individual defendants in their individual capacities without conducting a hearing. To the extent the judgment dismissed the claims against the individuals in their individual capacities, that judgment is reversed, and the cause is remanded for further proceedings consistent with this opinion. To the extent it dismissed the claims against DHR and against the individual defendants in their official capacities, the judgment is affirmed.
AFFIRMED IN PART; REVERSED IN PART; AND REMANDED.
Houston, See, Lyons, Brown, Johnstone, Harwood, and Stuart, JJ., concur.
Moore, C.J., concurs in part and dissents in part.
MOORE, Chief Justice (concurring in part and dissenting in part).
I concur in reversing the trial court's order insofar as it dismissed the claims against the DHR employees in their individual capacities; however, I dissent from that part of the majority opinion affirming the trial court's order dismissing the claims against DHR and its employees in their official capacities without a hearing |
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Smokey
Advanced Member
Posts:62
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| 20 Jul 2007 12:41 AM |
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Posted By Smokey on 07/20/2007 11:41 AM
Posted By Veritas on 07/19/2007 11:09 AM hahahah! My ex g/f, who had a huge case of rage against JB, is left handed. So is "you know who", I believe. But then again, I've heard that the girls' heads were toward the passenger side of the car. The mazda 929 doesn't have a huge trunk, and the last time I looked in JB's trunk, it was FULL of stuff...clothes, make-up bags, you name it. I teased her endlessly about it. If she were to have a flat, she'd have to pile her undies beside the road in plain view to get the tire out!!! Perhaps the killer had to angle the gun from the middle of the trunk, under the trunk edge, to shoot them in the head. And, seems like I remember hearing that JB was shot outside the trunk. I am gona throw my 2 cents in this. for what it is worth There was no blood found on the body of the car except what had run out of the trunk. If they were shot anywhere but inside the trunk getting the bodies into the trunk would of been quite messy and the driver wouls have left some in the drivers seat area. Even if the car was washed phorensics could still have pulled traces of blood with dye. That may have been a theory early on but it is not really supportable with what I have been told by many involved.
Sorry, I meant inside the trunk this board needs a way to go back and correct errors |
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VenusFlyTrap
Senior Member
Posts:710
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| 19 Jul 2007 10:17 AM |
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Posted By Veritas on 07/19/2007 10:58 AM well, since you mentioned his name, I may as well confirm it. My trainee, the one who was SURE it was done by her ex boyfriend...the stories she told me were all about this David guy.
David is an obnoxious arse and he has ired a lot of people and gotten his arse kicked by a lot of people and would have killed someone before JB and Tracie if it was in him to do... David likes an audience when he is being an arse and killing someone, I would suspect, would be no different!
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Disclaimer: I VenusFlyTrap post under one moniker only. If the author of a post doesn't say "VenusFlyTrap", it isn't me. |
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Veritas
Veteran Member
Posts:435
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| 19 Jul 2007 10:15 AM |
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| Way back when, there used to be a "peanut" who posted a lot to wiregrass.com. Not you? Dang! hahaha! That person used to be good for an opposing viewpoint. Peanut and another one who went by Snoopy. Might have even been a CharlieBrown, but memory is foggy. I agree with you that a totally independent investigator might be of some help, but so far, the only investigator that I've had any dealings with is very possibly the one who pulled the trigger. He sure as heck fits the description given by "you know who" in his original "confession". Go figure. |
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Veritas
Veteran Member
Posts:435
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| 19 Jul 2007 10:09 AM |
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| hahahah! My ex g/f, who had a huge case of rage against JB, is left handed. So is "you know who", I believe. But then again, I've heard that the girls' heads were toward the passenger side of the car. The mazda 929 doesn't have a huge trunk, and the last time I looked in JB's trunk, it was FULL of stuff...clothes, make-up bags, you name it. I teased her endlessly about it. If she were to have a flat, she'd have to pile her undies beside the road in plain view to get the tire out!!! Perhaps the killer had to angle the gun from the middle of the trunk, under the trunk edge, to shoot them in the head. And, seems like I remember hearing that JB was shot outside the trunk. |
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Veritas
Veteran Member
Posts:435
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| 19 Jul 2007 09:58 AM |
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| well, since you mentioned his name, I may as well confirm it. My trainee, the one who was SURE it was done by her ex boyfriend...the stories she told me were all about this David guy. |
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Veritas
Veteran Member
Posts:435
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| 19 Jul 2007 09:44 AM |
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| the gun was a .380? The bullets didn't penetrate the trunk pan? Interesting....I remember at the time hearing that, when they moved the car, blood was found beneath the car. It caused no little speculation as to why the officers at the scene didn't see it. It also added to the speculation that OPD simply didn't WANT to see it. Granted, a .380 is no TOY. The bullet is still a 9mm, and the smaller case of the .380 has a "hotter" powder to make up for its smaller size. The girls, if I remember correctly, WERE NOT found wet from the waist down. That was one of the many rumours that circulated about them. Now, it IS possible that their pants were wet, since the bladder and sphincter relax in death, allowing the contents to empty. But that's not anything unusual. Oh, and one last thing. A couple months after the murders, I had a trainee who lived near Ozark. After you get out of truck driving school, you have to ride / drive with a trainer for 8 weeks. In 8 weeks, cooped up in the cab / sleeper of a truck, you KNOW a person. She told me endless stories about this guy, a former boyfriend, who lived in Ozark, and who ran a wrecker service / gas station service. His gas station wasn't far from Herring. To hear her side of it, this guy was INSANE. I never really believed that he was the killer, because of other things that stuck in my mind (the accuracy of the original story as told by "you know who"), but just the same, it's something to consider. If not for the highly accurate story told by the original suspect, I'd be extremely curious about this guy with the wrecker. (Actually, it was a rollback). The fly in the ointment of ALL the various theories is that they're possible, but they don't explain how "you know who" could know so much about the girls and the way they were killed. HE IS THE LINK. |
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VenusFlyTrap
Senior Member
Posts:710
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| 19 Jul 2007 09:30 AM |
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LOL Southern, Poor David.... We know he lacks self control and that alone rules him out as a suspect. Maybe we should call this folder Wiregrass criminal philosophy 101 |
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Disclaimer: I VenusFlyTrap post under one moniker only. If the author of a post doesn't say "VenusFlyTrap", it isn't me. |
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southernbama
Veteran Member
Posts:385
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| 19 Jul 2007 09:26 AM |
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Posted By devils advocate on 07/19/2007 9:17 AM The fact that the girls were wet dosen't mean they were killed near a water source there are a hundred different variables there. And just because some guy that was a real a--hole lived on herring ten years before the murders dosen't make him a suspect. That's just absurd. It takes more than watching a few episodes of cold case files and csi to solve a crime. And by the way it could have been done by one person... If that person had a tow truck.
Another theory, no who do we know that has a tow truck business? nah, just joking David Daniels.
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Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. Ephesians 6:11-12 |
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southernbama
Veteran Member
Posts:385
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| 19 Jul 2007 09:20 AM |
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| I read the person's entire posts yesterday afternoon. This was the ONLY post that referenced the murders. From what I gather the lady's name is Jacqui, some spell it Jackie and I believe she lives in Daleville. She is living in a motel somewhere, which there aren't that many here (I work in Daleville). I believe she may have posted on the former wiregrass site because she said she was sexually molested by a lesbian while in foster care but can't remember her user id. Does anyone remember that? She may even post to this board now. She is still posting entries to that particular site. |
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Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. Ephesians 6:11-12 |
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VenusFlyTrap
Senior Member
Posts:710
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| 19 Jul 2007 08:58 AM |
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With all of the people living around Herring Ave and James St. No one heard a gunshot or two in the dead of the night while they slept or were up watching the tv because of insomnia.... Of course the killer(s) could have had a silencer too.... I don't think that some person driven by his emotional rage would kill someone in his backyard and leave them in his backyard, so to speak. I also don't give someone with the title "devil's advocate" much credibility for speaking "facts". |
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Disclaimer: I VenusFlyTrap post under one moniker only. If the author of a post doesn't say "VenusFlyTrap", it isn't me. |
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devils advocate
Veteran Member
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| 19 Jul 2007 08:17 AM |
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| The fact that the girls were wet dosen't mean they were killed near a water source there are a hundred different variables there. And just because some guy that was a real a--hole lived on herring ten years before the murders dosen't make him a suspect. That's just absurd. It takes more than watching a few episodes of cold case files and csi to solve a crime. And by the way it could have been done by one person... If that person had a tow truck. |
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cmom
Senior Member
Posts:1340
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| 19 Jul 2007 06:55 AM |
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| Thank you for that information Devil.
Its not to say that this person that lived on Herring thats spoken of in the above artical ,may have had a 380 as well as a 9mm.You know,anything is possible,and all things should be looked at.We all know there are rumors,yet alot of facts are got from rumors..(I saw that on cold case files)
I have always wondered,why were the girls wet?Where were they when they were killed?They left that store after calling Tracies mom,saying,we were lost,but are on our way home now.Somewhere they were killed near water or a swamp,brought back to Herring,and left.2 people have had to do this,for if they were left on Herring,the person doing the killing had to have a get away car which,someone else followed in,unless ofcourse the person doing the killing walked home.
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cmom
Senior Member
Posts:1340
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| 19 Jul 2007 04:23 AM |
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| Your Right Smokey,so many theories on this horrible crime.Theres someone out there that knows something.Smokey,you dont think the man arrested knows anything? I dont think he did this horrible crime,but didnt he know alot of things?
You are leaning on a close friend,boyfriend,or family member of one of the girls.Has any of these ppl been checked out I wonder.
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Smokey
Advanced Member
Posts:62
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| 19 Jul 2007 03:58 AM |
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| I do remember them questioning David as he said above. They had him cleared pretty quick as I remember it. There are so many theories on this murder it is almost impossible to know where to begin. I still lean on a close friend, boyfriend, or family member, however that is my hunch, I can not even begin to prove it |
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VenusFlyTrap
Senior Member
Posts:710
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| 19 Jul 2007 03:51 AM |
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LOL Southern, I have a friend who was married to a repo man. After he was shot for the 3rd time and wouldn't change careers she left him. Most have a key that's like a universal key or something for cars and some have a copied key to the car they are repossesing and they walk upto the car as the people sleep and will push it into the road and drive it on off.... They do report a repo to the police so the police knows what happened when the car is reported stolen. They do it in the wee hours because it's safer. If one has to use a tow truck they would have a police scort for doing so. But I don't know how they do things in Alabama.... I watched a repo show on TLC once and it's a dangerous job but they usually have a key that gets them in the car and lets them drive it away. People get very creative about keeping their cars and they know the repo man is coming... They place snakes in the cars, remove batteries and tires, sleep in the cars... Repo men are despised!!!! Most don't use a tow truck in the dead of the night though. |
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Disclaimer: I VenusFlyTrap post under one moniker only. If the author of a post doesn't say "VenusFlyTrap", it isn't me. |
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southernbama
Veteran Member
Posts:385
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| 19 Jul 2007 03:43 AM |
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| The repo guys certainly have to be sneaky; just asked my sis in law. She woke up one morning, found her car gone, and thought it was stolen. She called the police and they informed her that she needed to contact her finance company, her car had been repo'd. |
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Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. Ephesians 6:11-12 |
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VenusFlyTrap
Senior Member
Posts:710
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| 19 Jul 2007 03:38 AM |
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| Hey Smokey!!!!!
I was posting in reply to devil's advocate's post about the link posted by Southern regarding the person who thought someone named Clement (If remember correctly) who lived on Herring Ave and had a terrible temper toward women as being a possible suspect.
I also believe the girls were killed elsewhere and left on Herring to be found. Most killers would be ashamed and not want anyone to find the body or bodies but this one wanted them found and quickly. I also heard that there was a hand print found in the car that didn't match the rest that were in the car....
David Daniels, Are tow trucks quiet? Is it possible a tow truck could do this in the night and not be heard especially by the two houses right below Herring Ave? |
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Disclaimer: I VenusFlyTrap post under one moniker only. If the author of a post doesn't say "VenusFlyTrap", it isn't me. |
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Smokey
Advanced Member
Posts:62
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| 19 Jul 2007 03:23 AM |
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Posted By VenusFlyTrap on 07/19/2007 9:58 AM With all of the people living around Herring Ave and James St. No one heard a gunshot or two in the dead of the night while they slept or were up watching the tv because of insomnia.... Of course the killer(s) could have had a silencer too.... I don't think that some person driven by his emotional rage would kill someone in his backyard and leave them in his backyard, so to speak. I also don't give someone with the title "devil's advocate" much credibility for speaking "facts". The investigators do not believe they were killed on Herring AVE. The blood that has leaked from the trunk was blow back against the underside of the car and that could have only have happened it the car has been moved after they were shot. I seriously doubt that the killer would have parked the car "right in front of his house"
As for the tow truck theory, I think that came from the fact that they couls not locate any foreign DNA in the drivers seat. If noone was driving it then it would of had to of been towed to herring ave. I personally am not a big fan of this threoy but it is possible. I think the fact that their was no foreign evidence in the car points to someone who knew them and frequented that car, like family or friends.
As for my opinion on Johnny having done this, if he had any involvement they would of had him. I grew up around Johnny B and he is a good ol boy, but as dumb as a brick. As hard as Ozark tried to pin it on him the fact that they could not says he did not do it. If he had done it the case would of been solved in 5 minutes and we would not be having this discussion.
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AMTTOWING
Veteran Member
Posts:494
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| 19 Jul 2007 03:17 AM |
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| FOR EVERYONES INFO YES, I WAS QUESTIONED 3 TIMES. NO I WAS NEVER A SUSPECT. AND YES THERE WAS A REFLECTION IN THE WINDOW OF THE CONVENIENCE STORE THAT I DID SAY RESEMBLED THE BED OF A ALUMINUM BED ROLL BACK. AND I WAS GUIDED BY MR. MIXON BYRD ALMOST AS THOUGH THEY WANTED ME TO VERIFY A ROLL BACK. AND ASKED ME OF THE OWNERS OF SUCH ALUMINUM BED ROLL BACKS , WHICH AT THAT TIME ONLY 2 OTHER BUSINESSES HAD THIS TYPE OF TRUCK . BUT THAT WASN'T ENOUGH, THEY ASKED IF ANOTHER BUSINESS MAN HAD THIS TYPE OF TRUCK AND I ADVISED HE DIDN'T. I KINDA ENJOYED MY ANSWER TO THE LAST QUESTION THEY ASKED ME. THE QUESTION WAS , IN MY OPPINION COULD BARRENTINE HAVE DONE THIS? MY REPLY WAS ( IF HE DID IT , HE DONE 1 THING WRONG ) HE ASKED WHAT WAS THAT , I SAID (IF HE DID IT HE DONE 1 THING WRONG,HE DID IT RIGHT RIGHT , THATS WHY YOU CAN'T FIGURE IT OUT ) I WAS'NT BEING CRUEL TO ANYONE BUT THEY DNA'D MYSELF AND EVERYONE THAT WORKED AT MY SHOP, SO WHY DIDN'T THEY DNA EVERYONE AT THE S.O. AS I STATED INITIALLY I'D SAY GO BACK AND DNA EVERYONE THAT WAS IN THE AREA IN LAW ENFORCEMENT AT THAT TIME AND MAKE IT A REQUIREMENT . NOT A REQUEST, SEE IF YOU CAN CATCH A FISH IN THE SAME ROOM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AS YOUV'E READ RECENTLY A DEPUTY BEAT A PERSON ALMOST ALL THE WAY TO DEATH, WITH HIS OWN 2 HANDS, IF HE WERE'NT A SUSPECT THEN WHAT ABOUT NOW! THER WERE AT LEAST 3 OTHER DEPUTIES REFUSED BEING DNA'D PUT THEM AT THE FRONT OF THE LINE FOR TESTING |
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VenusFlyTrap
Senior Member
Posts:710
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| 19 Jul 2007 03:06 AM |
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| David,
I took some of the posts to pointing a finger to you as a possible suspect for killing the girls. I jumped off that "bandwagon" and onto your "bandwagon" defending you as a possible suspect to murder, with the truth. I guess the truth hurt you more than the fiction did....
My bad, I apologize! |
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Disclaimer: I VenusFlyTrap post under one moniker only. If the author of a post doesn't say "VenusFlyTrap", it isn't me. |
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VenusFlyTrap
Senior Member
Posts:710
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| 19 Jul 2007 02:58 AM |
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David, I won't call you but I will meet you at the moonshine still if you would like, LMAO!
Posted By VenusFlyTrap on 07/19/2007 11:17 AM
I rest my case, hehehe |
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Disclaimer: I VenusFlyTrap post under one moniker only. If the author of a post doesn't say "VenusFlyTrap", it isn't me. |
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southernbama
Veteran Member
Posts:385
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| 19 Jul 2007 02:52 AM |
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| To AMTTOWING
Posted By devils advocate on 07/19/2007 9:17 AM
"And by the way it could have been done by one person... If that person had a tow truck."
posted by southernbama
"Another theory, no who do we know that has a tow truck business? nah, just joking David Daniels."
Did you see the part where I said, "just joking". I probably got things stirred up but I was joking. There's just so many theories here lately, I had to kind of snicker at that remark by devils advocate. |
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Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. Ephesians 6:11-12 |
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AMTTOWING
Veteran Member
Posts:494
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| 19 Jul 2007 02:44 AM |
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ALSO VFT, WHY DID YOU JUMP OFF THE BAND WAGON DISCUSSING THE 2 GIRLS RIGHT TO BASHING ME WHY DON'T YOU CALL ME ,THEN WE CAN SPEAK MAN TO KEY BOARD MY # IS 334-445-4546 WAITING FOR YOUR CALLS! |
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AMTTOWING
Veteran Member
Posts:494
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| 19 Jul 2007 02:40 AM |
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VFT, JUST LOOKING THRU SOME OF YOUR POSTINGS ,JUST HOW OLD ARE YOU ? 3 OR 103 YOU ARE NOTHING. TO THE WIREGRASS HERE . YOU MY GOOD WINCH ARE THE ONE THAT CRAVES AN AUDIENCE. WHY DO YOU MESS WITH W.COM HAVE YOU SHOT YOUR WADD WHERE YOU ARE OR SIMPLY AFRAID TO BE APPROACHED EASILY FROM YOUR OWN AREA, ? IT WOULD TAKE A BURDEN OFF W.COM IF YOU WE'RE BANNED PERMANANTLY FROM COMPUTER CHATS OTHER THAN YOUR MORE FAMILIAR AREA OF CIBORING !!!!!!!!!!! |
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AMTTOWING
Veteran Member
Posts:494
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| 19 Jul 2007 02:34 AM |
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V.F.T. F-OFF & DIE, I GET INVOLVED IN SOME OF THIS TRASH U SOBS STIR AND ALL OF A SUDDEN I'M BEING TRASHED, WHY ISNT W-GRASS.COM SPREADING SOME OF THE RULES .UNEVENLY, I MUST SAY SO. WHY DONT YOU STEP IN AND SAY SOMETHING TO THESE PREVELENT A-HOLES, IF ONLY I KNEW WHERE SOME OF THESE HEXES ARE I WOULD CONFRONT THEM BUT THEY STAND TALL BEHIND THEIR KEY BOARDS. I BET YOUR HUSBAND IS A WIRELESS ROUTER!VFT ! WOULD THE PERSON THAT SPOKE WITH ME IN THE PAST REPRESENTING W.COM PLEASE CALL ME AGAIN . MAYBE YOU CAN GUIDE ME TO THESE TROUBLE MAKERS!&  |
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cmom
Senior Member
Posts:1340
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| 19 Jul 2007 12:27 AM |
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| Devil,I dont watch CSI,I do cold case files,and to me thats just what Ozark PD needs,someone to look at this cold case,thats getting colder everyday.True they may have been wet from any possible way,I was refering that if they were wet,were their clothing tested to see if dna could tell where the wet was from.Why was the OPD fishing the ed lisenby lake for JBs keys?Somehow they went there for some reason..I still feel that the one they arrested in the beginning knows something,not saying he did this crime,but think he was scared,saw something.I also think there was more than one person.What does it take Devil too solve a crime?
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devils advocate
Veteran Member
Posts:346
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| 19 Jul 2007 12:01 AM |
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| let me throw a wrench in the monkey works here. I have seen alot about the murders and have a few clues that will intrest alot of people. #1 a 9mm was not the murder weapon it was a 380. Had it been a 9mm the round would have traveled through the girls bodies and through the trunk pan. ( for those of you that don't know they found the slugs in the trunk) A 380 and a 9mm are the same size projectile the 380 just carries a smaller powder charge. Therfore it didn't have the force to travel through the bodies and out of the car like a 9mm would. Call any bullett manufacturer and they will tall you the same. So you kill them with a 380 and plant a 9mm shell casing in the car and throw everything out of wack right out the gate. #2 the girls were in the trunk when they were shot ( refer back to #1) and from the angle of the entry and exit wounds it was by a left handed shooter. Now that I have opend the door for more debate I look forward to debunking your next speculation with fact. More to come later. |
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southernbama
Veteran Member
Posts:385
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| 18 Jul 2007 10:00 AM |
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| I read over several of the entries by hitting previous on that link. The person has some really bad mental problems and it was confusing. |
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Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. Ephesians 6:11-12 |
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Wrascal
Senior Member
Posts:885
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| 18 Jul 2007 09:59 AM |
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Now the actual article
Entry #460790, added on 10-11-06 @ 7:46 am EDT. [Entry Access Restriction] None.
Title: Tracie Hawlett and J.B. Beasley
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tracie Hawlett and J.B. Beasley, both 17 - were killed execution style in 1999 with a single gunshot each to the heads, then stuffed in the trunk of a car and left on Herring Ave, in Ozark, AL.
Now- this is where this gets extremely wierd. In order to correctly tell their story, I need to go back 10 years prior, to 1989.
June of 89, I went to AIT here at Ft. Rucker, AL. There, not only did I meet my now ex-husband, but I also met the mother of Gene- the young man who lives upstairs from me, the one to whom I've referred lately. She was my maid of honor at my wedding.
His mom was married to Butch. Butch was a great guy. He loved his wife and kids, was a good man all around.
He went to Desert Storm and when he came back, he and Nancy- the mother, and by then one of my best friends- went out to Cabaret, a local nightclub. They drank some, got in a fight and she left him there.
Butch began walking home. During his walk, he got an asthma attack- supposedly. His inhaler was found in his hand. He was killed by a car on that dark road- a road seldom used.
Nancy recieved a good deal of money from his death and always insisted it was for her boys' school.
I'm not the only one who believes Nancy killed him.
To date- 15 years later, at the ages of 19 and 21, neither boy has seen a penny. The other son just joined the Army and is slated for Iraq.
Nancy has a bad history of cheating on her husbands and, with the sole exception of Butch, picks men who are angry, abusive, controlling and dangerous.
All of them have abused Gene. Nancy always allowed it. Nancy would use the older kids to watch the younger ones. This is her fourth marriage, and we're awaiting another child. She always has at least one child per marriage.
Nancy and I had a major falling out maybe 10 years ago because I didn't like how she was treating her kids, and to be honest, how she was living her life. She didn't want to hear any of it. With her, it's always about her and no one else.
I hadn't seen Gene or the kids for several years until last week, when there he was. Somehow, he and I always pop back into each others lives after many years.
This time, he shocked me by introducing a wife, stepson and his first baby. He has a wonderful family!! I'm so proud of him, even though his mother says otherwise to him.
Gene had moved to Florida for a few years with Nancy and that family. To show up back here, living right above me told me something.
We had a lot of catching up to do, and he told me Nancy had remarried in February of this year to husband #4. He didn't say the name right away. He did say this guy had pulled a gun on her before they were married, treated her like shit, her family like shit and was abusive and extremely controlling. Still- no name. Had he said a name I would have not been surprised because this guy- A.) has a very unique name, and B.) is exactly like that.
How do I know? Let me go back to last night first, when I got the bomb dropped in my lap.
They wanted me to come upstairs to read a letter Nancy had written to Gene, Nancy's father and several members of the family. There were 2 pictures- both of the wedding day, one with Nancy and her new husband and one with them and the kids.
When I saw the man, my jaw dropped. I said- I know that guy!! When Gene told me the name- Clenton, I about shit my pants.
He was out on $25,000 bond when they got married. Nancy married his ass anyway, even though he held a gun to her throat and threw it at one of the kids.
Needless to say, I was in terrible shock because I worked with this guy on 3rd shift for 3 years, and he's insane.
This is the same guy that followed Roger home one day and pulled a 9mm out of his car threatening Roger. I have that in a journal somewhere here at WDC, I'll have to find it.
Clenton and I would talk sometimes about Bingo, and just bullshit stuff, and sometimes, he'd get this look in his eyes that would scream dangerous. He's go out on the flightline and cut helicopter tires to the core. They caught him a time or two.
He was abusive to many girlfriends.
And he lived on Herring Ave in Ozark, AL.
Roger and I talked about this a lot; we both feel he's the one who killed Tracie Hawlett and J.B. Beasley that night in 1999.
He has a 9mm; a 9mm was used.
The murders happened very late at night; Clenton worked 3rd shift and was always out late on nights he didn't work.
The police feel the person who did this had done it before; Clenton has a history of abuse and violence.
The police profile matches Clenton.
Clenton was fired from Army Fleet Support because he refused several times to take a drug test. He claims he was laid off. This is not true.
There are more facts, but I will not divulge them right now because they are too sensitive.
Their case was featured on Americas Most Wanted, but the tips led nowhere.
I've fought with myself for years about calling in a tip, however, due to police corruption in Ozark, I do not believe this case will ever be solved.
One thing remains true: There is a killer on the loose; a killer of two 17- year old innocent girls, and I believe he is married to the mother of my young friend and is now living somewhere in Florida.
The question is: What do I do now?
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peanut804
Advanced Member
Posts:168
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| 18 Jul 2007 08:30 AM |
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Entry #460790, added on 10-11-06 @ 7:46 am EDT. [Entry Access Restriction] None.
OK...I'm a little confused. Who is the author of this article? How did you come across it? I'm relatively new to the board and need a little help with the history. I know and have followed the JB & Tracy case, or at least as much as has been released, but where did this article come from? How can more info be gathered and given to a credible investigator? Who would be a credible investigator? By the way........this is my first post on any board ever!!!! |
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cmom
Senior Member
Posts:1340
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| 18 Jul 2007 07:37 AM |
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| SouthernBama,I read these post too,as I was coming too the part where this guy lived at the time,Herring,I got the chills.As I went on into a later date,did you get the feeling that this person writing all this was a woman?First I thought it was a man until I kept reading..This person that was writing about,who he or she thought was the person that killed JB and Tracie,did you ever find out by reading if the OPD had ever checked up on him? I didnt get that far..Hope everone will come to the Candle Light Vigil for the young victims,and to let ppl know we havent forgot,especially the parents of J.B. and Tracie.. |
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Wrascal
Senior Member
Posts:885
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| 18 Jul 2007 01:30 AM |
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I feel that we need to ENCOURAGE people to speak up about their suspicions/little details that they may have/know. Even if it proves to be unfounded, it may turn up some other helpful info.
I also feel we should DISCOURAGE those who would belittle, condemn, intimidate or otherwise pooh-pooh them from speaking out. That person may have the unknown answer, and should be listened too.
Eight years of official information has led to nothing concrete. |
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Wrascal
Senior Member
Posts:885
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